Significant Tornado Events

[TH2002]

While on the topic of 4/14/2012, I've always felt the Woodward, OK EF3 (shoulda-been EF4 in my opinion) gets overlooked. The tornado was responsible for all of the fatalities in the outbreak as well as 29 of the injuries. Condos and homes were leveled (including at least one house that was well anchored to its foundation), extensive ground scouring occurred, and trees were denuded with some spotty debarking. While I suppose the high-end EF3 rating is in "conservative but not horrible" territory, OUN would have been well within their rights to go EF4.

 

[Shakespeare 2016]

At a hotel out of town & don't have the book on me, will have the answer by Monday.
I've always found that thing fascinating; it touched down right on the state line between Montana & South Dakota & only lasted 3 miles but managed to turn into a photogenic stovepipe long enough to be photographed in its brief existence.

Some of the debris granulation it did to a tractor and at least 1 other vehicle. It also managed to do some pretty solid scouring of the ground as well. I would have to say the tornado was well into the EF4 category and may have reached EF5 intensity.

 

[buckeye05]

Some of the debris granulation it did to a tractor and at least 1 other vehicle. It also managed to do some pretty solid scouring of the ground as well. I would have to say the tornado was well into the EF4 category and may have reached EF5 intensity.

There’s literally nothing to suggest that, even context wise.

 

[Shakespeare 2016]

There’s literally nothing to suggest that, even context wise.

Have you seen the vid of the tractor and other vehicle?

 

[Shakespeare 2016]

There’s literally nothing to suggest that, even context wise.

 

[buckeye05]

Have you seen the vid of the tractor and other vehicle?

Yes, and when I see stuff like that I ask myself “is this contextual damage SO extreme that even a high-end EF4 wouldn’t be capable of it?” The answer in this case is no. Plenty of high-end EF4 tornadoes produce extreme vehicle damage. While it’s a common site after an EF5, it’s not unique to EF5 events, so using that as the only basis for such a claim is just silly and unfounded.

 

[Shakespeare 2016]

Yes, and when I see stuff like that I ask myself “is this contextual damage SO extreme that even a high-end EF4 wouldn’t be capable of it?” The answer in this case is no. Plenty of high-end EF4 tornadoes produce extreme vehicle damage. While it’s a common site after an EF5, it’s not unique to EF5 events, so using that as the only basis for such a claim is just silly and unfounded.

Saying the possibility thar a tornado reached EF5 intensity doesn't necessarily mean it did though. I do however think this tornado should have been rated well into the EF4 category

 

[buckeye05]

Oh my bad I thought you were talking about the vehicle damage at the Sleepy Hollow Mobile Home Park in Woodward! Sorry that’s on me.

You’re taking about Capitol/Camp Crook. So in this case there was some very deep scouring, and a few other things that make the “coulda been an EF5” statement not so far fetched. I thought you were trying to say Woodward 2012 was an EF5 candidate. Sorry for being dismissive.

I do agree with TH2002. Woodward was probably a low-end EF4. I think they had enough to rate it as such, even if it was just based on that one house.

 

[Shakespeare 2016]

Oh my bad I thought you were talking about the vehicle damage at the Sleepy Hollow Mobile Home Park in Woodward! Sorry that’s on me.

You’re taking about Capitol/Camp Crook. So in this case there was some very deep scouring, and a few other things that make the “coulda been an EF5” statement not so far fetched. I thought you were trying to say Woodward 2012 was an EF5 candidate. Sorry for being dismissive.

I do agree with TH2002. Woodward was probably a low-end EF4. I think they had enough to rate it as such, even if it was just based on that one house.

OK, well-built homes swept away with an additional extreme nearby contextual damage I believe is needed for an EF5 rating. The problem however is how number of NWS offices who ignore extreme contextual damage and these tornadoes are getting less than an EF4 rating. Like Matador from last year. I mean come on now. Can't you just tell this tornado deserved a high-end EF4 rating based off the extreme vehicle damage alone. Common sense of extreme contextual damage can tell you a tornado was violent.

 

[Juliett Bravo Kilo]

Have you seen the vid of the tractor and other vehicle?

Camp Crook was the one that apparently swept away an outbuilding and also manged to dislodge and break its foundation apart into pieces, according to the NWS entry on it.

June 28, 2018 Camp Crook/Harding County Tornadoes

 

[buckeye05]

Camp Crook was the one that apparently swept away an outbuilding and also manged to dislodge and break its foundation apart into pieces, according to the NWS entry on it.

June 28, 2018 Camp Crook/Harding County Tornadoes

Yeah that’s another good piece of evidence suggesting a high-end event.

 

[Juliett Bravo Kilo]

Yeah that’s another good piece of evidence suggesting a high-end event.

Speaking of high-end events, it looks like Guin finally lives up to its reputation. I eagerly await TornadoTalk's premium summary this summer which will involve several chapters covering every single instance of damage along the path. Amazing how much photographic evidence of it was locked away for decades until now.

 

[Juliett Bravo Kilo]

What did he have to say about the Camp Crook, SD/Capitol, MT 2018 tornado? It was certainly much higher than the low-end EF3 rating it got.

Yeah, it seems that high-end EF4 has become the new EF5 and now low-end EF3 is the new EF4, along with how EF2 is the new EF3....I could go on and on about how the EF scale is beyond recovery at this point.

 

[Shakespeare 2016]

Yeah, it seems that high-end EF4 has become the new EF5 and now low-end EF3 is the new EF4, along with how EF2 is the new EF3....I could go on and on about how the EF scale is beyond recovery at this point.

Violent tornadoes were already rare on the F-SCALE according for about 1% 9f all tornadoes. Now less than 1/2% of all tornadoes are rated EF4 or EF5 on the EF-SCALE.

 

[SpotlightForRareTornadoes]

When we almost lost Pecos Hank 12 years ago:

 

[Juliett Bravo Kilo]

Violent tornadoes were already rare on the F-SCALE according for about 1% 9f all tornadoes. Now less than 1/2% of all tornadoes are rated EF4 or EF5 on the EF-SCALE.

True, but the situation with the scale is out of control now.

 

[SpotlightForRareTornadoes]

True, but the situation with the scale is out of control now.

Somebody PLEASE Fix it!!!! The EF-scale is extremely corrupted.

 

[joshoctober16]

True, but the situation with the scale is out of control now.

its more funny when there is a real wind measurement at a damage site, you get insane things like EF2 damage being made by 264 mph winds...
the under rating is extremely severe, not a single big over rated event apparently in this sample.

 

[Shakespeare 2016]

its more funny when there is a real wind measurement at a damage site, you get insane things like EF2 damage being made by 264 mph winds... View attachment 25378
the under rating is extremely severe, not a single big over rated event apparently in this sample.

It really makes me wonder if the F-SCALE winds were more close to the correct value than the EF-SCALE. Tornadic winds are very unusual so it may be too hard to say for sure.

 

[joshoctober16]

It really makes me wonder if the F-SCALE winds were more close to the correct value than the EF-SCALE. Tornadic winds are very unusual so it may be too hard to say for sure.

paper states EF scale is ok for EF0-EF2 but then evreything after is under rated. as for the F scale they state its more acurate however the F0 tend to sligthly be over rated , despite this F0-F3 are in the ok zone while F4-F5 are not.

here is the wind speed vs damage but the damage is using the old F scale.

so yes F scale is apparently more acurate to the real tornado winds then the EF scale (well execpt for weak F0)