June 21st 2023 Matador TX Tornado Discussion

[UK_EF4]

Didn't NWS Jackson, MS rate ground scouring as an EF4 with an unassigned windspeed for the recent Rolling Fork EF4 tornado?

Yeah, I think so though am not 100% sure.

 

[andyhb]

All I'm going to say to that video is "the lack of consistency is the problem in the first place."

 

[Shakespeare 2016]

If you read the EF-SCALE from Wikipedia almost every category talks about what happens to vehicles except for EF0. There are also many other things in each category that also tend to be ignored by many NWS offices. If you specifically look at the EF5 category in regards to vehicle damage that is exactly what happened in Matador. If the EF-SCALE is going to be based solely on home or building construction then why even add other factors to each category

Enhanced Fujita scale - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

 

[Shakespeare 2016]

Highlighting by me. That quite well shows that whoever is doing the surveying shouldn't be. This is not a question of how strictly scales and 'rules' are adhered to, but a question of "How fast were the winds here as best we can tell, even if that's inexact"

You always find what you're lookling for because of confirmation bias, so simply seek the truth.

I am not sure how many people took the EF-KIT on here but I am going to assume most people did. I remember Jim LaDue showing a house from like La Plata, MD that was completely swept away(a 200 mph EF4) and had very little to no contextual damage near it. It is obviously a construction flaw and probably shouldn't be rated higher than EF3. Then he shows a house from. the Bridge Creek 1999 tornado that received an F5 rating on the F-SCALE. Using the EF-SCALE he put it again as a 200 mph EF4. He then states since there is extreme contextual damage nearby he would be confident rating that tornado an EF5. It makes me wonder why they used a 200 mph EF4 for a well-constructed home when the slab is completely swept clean. It feels like you are basically making it to where an EF5 rating is much more harder to achieve than it should be.

 

[JBishopwx]

Some key notes on Rolling Fork since some are asking:
-The tornado remained strong to violent as it continued northeast of Rolling Fork across mainly open fields. Through these fields, aerial imagery revealed multiple areas of ground scarring.
-A very high percentage of trees were
snapped along the path through a wooded area south of Bear Lake Rd.
It was in this wooded area where the first indications of EF3 to EF4 damage were noted, with at least one tree and root ball and several more large tree pieces fully displaced into the downstream field.
- Debarking was observed on several hardwood trees, with only stubs of the main branches of some trees remaining.
-Full text: http://mesonet.agron.iastate.edu/wx/afos/p.php?pil=PNSJAN&e=202306062206

 

[UK_EF4]

Don’t forget It’s still important to be respectful when sharing opinions. Positive change to the scale can only happen if people share their opinions respectfully, from both sides of the debate.

 

[Sawmaster]

When you see the vid and the message, it's clear that "the messenger" supports the "official message". Given the situation it could have been (and still could be) an excellent opportunity to call for the obviously needed changes but that didn't happen.

And why the response on Twitter? Don't have the courtesy or courage to say something where the conversation it already at? Nah, go to where you know your followers and friends and fanbois will support you instead. Office politics 101, and it's these kinds of "politics" which comprise a large part of the problem itself.

The "shooting the messenger" analogy doesn't really apply here either. Not only was the message composed and compiled by the YT'er, he's profiting from it, so to some degree he's responsible for this message. He has to accept that like the rest of us what he says or doesn't say is going to have an effect on how he's responded to.

 

[UK_EF4]

When you see the vid and the message, it's clear that "the messenger" supports the "official message". Given the situation it could have been (and still could be) an excellent opportunity to call for the obviously needed changes but that didn't happen.

And why the response on Twitter? Don't have the courtesy or courage to say something where the conversation it already at? Nah, go to where you know your followers and friends and fanbois will support you instead. Office politics 101, and it's these kinds of "politics" which comprise a large part of the problem itself.

The "shooting the messenger" analogy doesn't really apply here either. Not only was the message composed and compiled by the YT'er, he's profiting from it, so to some degree he's responsible for this message. He has to accept that like the rest of us what he says or doesn't say is going to have an effect on how he's responded to.

I agree with what you say here. But It's going to be hard for people to have a debate that actually leads to positive change if people aren't being respectful, that's all Im saying. To be honest, I also agree with the comment on the video. But if the commenters had approached it with a different tone, we might have got an actual discussion rather than the response above.

 

[Shakespeare 2016]

I agree with what you say here. But It's going to be hard for people to have a debate that actually leads to positive change if people aren't being respectful, that's all Im saying. To be honest, I also agree with the comment on the video. But if the commenters had approached it with a different tone, we might have got an actual discussion rather than the response above.

I have for many years been respectful to these hard a**'NWS offices by asking reasonable questions and sent many tweets and heard nothing back from. them. If they are going to do that others then why shouldn't I be disrespectful to them?

 

[UK_EF4]

I have for many years been respectful to these hard a**'NWS offices by asking reasonable questions and sent many tweets and heard nothing back from. them. If they are going to do that others then why shouldn't I be disrespectful to them?

Because being respectful just seems like basic decency, at least to me, and being disrespectful back certainly won't help anything. I saw some replies where Ethan mentioned he was going to engage in conversation but was put off. This isn't supposed to be a personal attack on you btw either, as I understand that you are frustrated - I think almost all of us are round here. But we are really going to get nowhere with name calling and rudeness.

 

[TH2002]

Because being respectful just seems like basic decency, at least to me, and being disrespectful back certainly won't help anything. I saw some replies where Ethan mentioned he was going to engage in conversation but was put off. This isn't supposed to be a personal attack on you btw either, as I understand that you are frustrated - I think almost all of us are round here. But we are really going to get nowhere with name calling and rudeness.

I also don't think the name calling helps anyone's cause, and, as @buckeye05 pointed out one time, only serves to perpetuate the perception of "lol look at those weather weenies having another hissy fit thinking every tornado is an EF5".

The credibility of so-called "weather weenies" is already low when it comes to tornado damage analysis, and all the name calling and finger pointing will only further dock the already low credibility.

 

[Shakespeare 2016]

Because being respectful just seems like basic decency, at least to me, and being disrespectful back certainly won't help anything. I saw some replies where Ethan mentioned he was going to engage in conversation but was put off. This isn't supposed to be a personal attack on you btw either, as I understand that you are frustrated - I think almost all of us are round here. But we are really going to get nowhere with name calling and rudeness.

Well I don't like being ignored or getting a smart a** message back from other NWS offices.

 

[JPWX]

Starts singing Why Can't We Be Friends, Why Can't We Be Friends.....

 

[TH2002]

Starts singing Why Can't We Be Friends, Why Can't We Be Friends.....

Because some of us feel that lazy survey teams get their Money For Nothing, meanwhile we gotta move these refrigerators…

 

[TH2002]

Discussing this event with a NWS forecaster friend of mine who has experience in damage surveying, and I put together a pretty solid case for why this tornado was severely underrated. I doubt he'll be able to change anything, but says he'll do some digging to see if he agrees with me after looking over the evidence. If he agrees, it's pretty much no longer debatable even on a professional level that this was a major screw-up.

On a more serious note, any updates regarding this?

 

[CheeselandSkies]

Because some of us feel that lazy survey teams get their Money For Nothing, meanwhile we gotta move these refrigerators…

Great song.

 

[buckeye05]

Well I don't like being ignored or getting a smart a** message back from other NWS offices.

Would you PLEASE stop? People like you make me embarrassed to be associated with this hobby at times. Grow up.

 

[buckeye05]

On a more serious note, any updates regarding this?

Nah it lead nowhere unfortunately.

 

[jiharris0220]

Nah it lead nowhere unfortunately.

What do you mean? Like, did he simply never got back in touch, or he couldn’t find anything?

 

[buckeye05]

What do you mean? Like, did he simply never got back in touch, or he couldn’t find anything?

DM'd you. I should probably respect the guy's privacy.