Archive 2017-2019 Political Thread

[Mike S]

surprised we've yet to see the inevitable Sarah Huckabee Sanders "clarification". Seems like she has to issue those 2-3 times a week.

 

[Kory]

And we were worried about Obama coming for the guns! Where ya at, Ted?! Come save us from Trump!

 

[Kory]

***Language warning for a small portion of the video***

 

[gangstonc]

Execs from Apollo, the private equity firm, and Citigroup both had W.H. meetings with Jared Kushner.

Following the meetings, Apollo lent $184 million to Kushner’s family real estate firm. Citigroup put up $325 million, NYT reports.
https://t.co/t4swvtnR7D

WSJ: Federal prosecutors probing the $285 million loan Kushner Cos. got from Deutsche Bank a month before the 2016 election sent the bank a grand jury subpoena in the fall. https://t.co/nur8e5wUGK

Scoop: Mueller’s team is asking about comments made by Hope Hicks about Russian contacts to the NYT, a former Trump campaign official who has spoken to Special Counsel’s office tells CNN.

A picture of trump golfing with the director of Rosneft has surfaced.

Huge news day.

 

[Kory]

How great it is to have a "conservative" as president! 25 cent per gallon gas tax hike proposed by Trump. I love making America great again!

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...t-hike-in-the-gas-tax/?utm_term=.ce7f7d19bb79

 

[Kory]

I will be the first to admit, I was not the biggest Trump lover. He has major cracks in his moral foundation. That being said, I was *attempting* to overlook some of his deficiencies if he was able to forward a truly conservative agenda. That has all began to crumble in the past several months. I can no longer overlook his deficiencies in favor of his sorry attempt at the presidency. ANY Republican politician that accepts his endorsement will NOT get my vote. I will actively work against him if that means supporting outsider conservatives over faux conservatives (those that side with Donald) who have a better chance of winning.

I think Trump literally goes along with the ideas of the person he last spoke with. He is so easily influenced it isn't even funny.

 

[Kory]

I've also seen unofficial reports that the NRA has seen a huge spike in membership enrollment.

 

[Evan]

Amazing how back in September there was a massive glut of AR15s, lowers, mags, uppers, etc just stagnating and collecting dust on shelves. Vegas happened. Small amount of buying. Parkland happened. Small amount of buying. Trump announces he wants Sessions to ban bump stocks about a week ago. Major increase in buying with each day seeing increases over the day prior.

Things went insane last night. For those that don't know, a lower receiver is what Congress and the ATF have actually legislated/regulated into being the firearm. A tiny block of metal...in most cases completely lacking a trigger or moving parts. I watched thousands of lowers get sold at major online retailers last night. Not going to lie...I bought about 8. Why you might ask? Because the current bills that purport to ban assault weapons do exactly like 1986 gun control on machine guns. Existing firearms are grandfathered in. If it looks like an AWB might happen you will see millions and millions of firearms and magazines sold in a few weeks. Manufacturers are re-hiring staff and scaling up rapidly.

The proposed AWB also bans pistol magazines over 10 rounds. Guess I'm about to have to buy a bunch of HK and Walther Mags and another 50 PMAGs. I've also ordered 5 new uppers (which wouldn't even be impacted as they are not firearms).

I urge everyone to go buy a $39 or $49 AR receiver. Message me if you need help locating stock. If there is a new AWB you've got something that will be extremely valuable. And, unless you are going to buy a fire control mechanism, upper, bolt carrier group, etc it's just a piece of metal. Literally doesn't even have a trigger. Just make sure you follow the law and do things right with a local FFL.

BTW, 80% lowers = why a new AWB won't actually impact anyone that wants to commit a mass shooting and will mean ARs essentially can't be regulated. Everyone will still be able to purchase those and with a hand drill or a drill press you've got your lower made using a jig in about 20-60 minutes.

I was talking to a few former military and current LEOs this week at a range I use. They said they'll never ever agree to help the government confiscate firearms from law abiding citizens. Each one of them said they swore an oath to the Constitution and would rather switch sides to supporting civilians than the government. Many of them said "I'll die to protect the 2A" The palpable hate that 75 % of hardcore gun owners now have for Trump is amazing. He crossed the wrong group.

 

[Kory]

Amazing how back in September there was a massive glut of AR15s, lowers, mags, uppers, etc just stagnating and collecting dust on shelves. Vegas happened. Small amount of buying. Parkland happened. Small amount of buying. Trump announces he wants Sessions to ban bump stocks about a week ago. Major increase in buying with each day seeing increases over the day prior.

Things went insane last night. For those that don't know, a lower receiver is what Congress and the ATF have actually legislated/regulated into being the firearm. A tiny block of metal...in most cases completely lacking a trigger or moving parts. I watched thousands of lowers get sold at major online retailers last night. Not going to lie...I bought about 8. Why you might ask? Because the current bills that purport to ban assault weapons do exactly like 1986 gun control on machine guns. Existing firearms are grandfathered in. If it looks like an AWB might happen you will see millions and millions of firearms and magazines sold in a few weeks. Manufacturers are re-hiring staff and scaling up rapidly.

The proposed AWB also bans pistol magazines over 10 rounds. Guess I'm about to have to buy a bunch of HK and Walther Mags and another 50 PMAGs. I've also ordered 5 new uppers (which wouldn't even be impacted as they are not firearms).

I urge everyone to go buy a $39 or $49 AR receiver. Message me if you need help locating stock. If there is a new AWB you've got something that will be extremely valuable. And, unless you are going to buy a fire control mechanism, upper, bolt carrier group, etc it's just a piece of metal. Literally doesn't even have a trigger. Just make sure you follow the law and do things right with a local FFL.

BTW, 80% lowers = why a new AWB won't actually impact anyone that wants to commit a mass shooting and will mean ARs essentially can't be regulated. Everyone will still be able to purchase those and with a hand drill or a drill press you've got your lower made using a jig in about 20-60 minutes.

I was talking to a few former military and current LEOs this week at a range I use. They said they'll never ever agree to help the government confiscate firearms from law abiding citizens. Each one of them said they swore an oath to the Constitution and would rather switch sides to supporting civilians than the government. Many of them said "I'll die to protect the 2A" The palpable hate that 75 % of hardcore gun owners now have for Trump is amazing. He crossed the wrong group.

I've been wanting to build an AR-10 for a while now, but I haven't had time/money. When the government wants their student loans repaid, they make sure you know.

Nothing will likely come from Trump's attempt at an AWB (he's still an idiot regardless), but it is leading to an influx of guns into circulation (not just ARs). Seems counterintuitive on the gun grabbers agenda...

 

[Arcadia]

Just...let that sink in.

 

[ghost]

I really don't care if Americans own AR-15... Ak-47... etc. of the military style rifles that so many are up in arms (pun) about. What I don't understand is why American civilians feel the need for high capacity mags for their guns. I think this is the main cause for the higher casualties in many of the mass shooting incidents we have had. The down time for reloading is substantially reduced when the shooter can shoot 30/60 or more times before stopping to reload. Evan I know you are passionate about this, but explain to me why you think this is so important for civilians to have access to. My sphere of gun experience has been hunting and target practice. I fortunately have not had to use a gun in defense of my property or my loved ones, but if that situation was to occur, I think the six shots in my .38 and three shots in shotgun will be reasonable firepower in a close quarters situation that would require. I'm not trying to troll you guys, I just would like to understand your thinking on why a gun that holds so many rounds is so important to you.

 

[Kory]

My position is that it’s not the government’s or any random Joe’s job to determine what I need. What I need and want is my friggin business.

And a shotgun might be the worst home defense weapon.

*Edit to make it nicer*

 

[Arcadia]

I really don't care if Americans own AR-15... Ak-47... etc. of the military style rifles that so many are up in arms (pun) about. What I don't understand is why American civilians feel the need for high capacity mags for their guns. I think this is the main cause for the higher casualties in many of the mass shooting incidents we have had. The down time for reloading is substantially reduced when the shooter can shoot 30/60 or more times before stopping to reload. Evan I know you are passionate about this, but explain to me why you think this is so important for civilians to have access to. My sphere of gun experience has been hunting and target practice. I fortunately have not had to use a gun in defense of my property or my loved ones, but if that situation was to occur, I think the six shots in my .38 and three shots in shotgun will be reasonable firepower in a close quarters situation that would require. I'm not trying to troll you guys, I just would like to understand your thinking on why a gun that holds so many rounds is so important to you.

I'm certain there isn't an answer that will satisfy you. They've trired to explain it numerous times and yet you remain confused. It is not a lack of trying on their part. A lack of will to understand has more to do with it, I think. One cannot make you understand a thing you do not wish to understand. You do not agree with their position. You've stated so numerous times. Yet you keep asking them to explain themselves. There are no magic words. You either accept their answer or you don't, but to keep asking them to explain is kind of ridiculous.

 

[Evan]

I really don't care if Americans own AR-15... Ak-47... etc. of the military style rifles that so many are up in arms (pun) about. What I don't understand is why American civilians feel the need for high capacity mags for their guns. I think this is the main cause for the higher casualties in many of the mass shooting incidents we have had. The down time for reloading is substantially reduced when the shooter can shoot 30/60 or more times before stopping to reload. Evan I know you are passionate about this, but explain to me why you think this is so important for civilians to have access to. My sphere of gun experience has been hunting and target practice. I fortunately have not had to use a gun in defense of my property or my loved ones, but if that situation was to occur, I think the six shots in my .38 and three shots in shotgun will be reasonable firepower in a close quarters situation that would require. I'm not trying to troll you guys, I just would like to understand your thinking on why a gun that holds so many rounds is so important to you.

I would explain my reasoning in two different ways:

1. It's none of the government's business as Kory said and it's also simply not effective. I'll explain. Whether changing 10 round mags (limit under the original assault weapons ban) or 15 round mags the capacity is sufficient to kill. Under the old AWB you could still buy high cap magazines (grandfathered in just like the current proposal) as long as they existed prior to the ban date. Two things happened. One, it became much more difficult for law abiding citizens to get or replace their existing magazines as the price skyrocketed.

For a drug dealer, a wealthy guy like the Vegas shooter, someone that just inherited a significant chunk of money like the Parkland shooter, or the Va Tech shooter who studiously planned out his massacre (not to mention Columbine...they also used pre-ban hi-cap magazines) there's simply nothing to prevent them from getting hi-cap magazines.

As I said, the current bill also grandfathers in existing mags and people will just order huge shipments and manufacturers will produce balls to the wall until the date the ban comes into place. This time, there will be such a large number of mags on the street I don't think the price increases will be nearly as steep (early on a pre-ban Glock mag was $40 or so but it went up to $100 or more during the original AWB).

You can't confiscate mags unless you literally want civil war, so a mag ban would be incredibly impotent. People have been stockpiling dozens or hundreds of magazines since the day the past ban expired. Can't put the genie back into the bottle. Finally, as I mentioned, those that do mass shootings or commit street crime will still get the mags as they did before. All you've done is make them more expensive for millions of law abiding citizens because of the actions of a few.

2. I don't think millions of innocent, law-abiding Americans should lose their rights over the actions of criminals that will find a way to circumvent restrictions. 3-D printers are here. Printing mags or an AR-15 lower receiver is already possible with a low-level 3-D printer. 5 years from now? 10 years from now? Going to be interesting to see how we have to pay to download patents and then can print many items on our own. Criminals, of course, don't care about patents or criminal law.

Finally, from 1992/93 before the AWB until the sunset of the AWB in 2004 we has massively higher rates of gun homicides, robbery using a firearm, etc. Ironically some of the biggest decreases came AFTER 2004. If the AWB was effective that wouldn't have happened. Academic studies have been done. They either say the impacts were minimal or inconclusive. The evidence required to infringe upon my Constitutional rights should be a lot more than minimal or inconclusive.

So, that's my reasoning. It's ineffective, it punishes innocent, law-abiding citizens, it doesn't hurt criminals or mass-shooter, they can easily practice mag changes and just use standard capacity mags. The reason people in the firearms community like hi-cap mags is not in case of a Soviet invasion. It's because large mags are much easier to use at the range. You'll here some people say it also evens the playing field with the government, and that's partially true as well. For some people it's because they want to make sure they have 15 or 17 rounds in a mag in case a burglar breaks in or someone tries to rob them and starts shooting first.

My question is return is why are you so convinced that magazine capacity limits would have a positive effect? Finally, I would also pose this to you...you might say no one needs a high-capacity magazine or an AR-15. That's probably true for the vast majority of Americans. But it isn't about need. You're a hunter. You don't NEED to hunt. You can go to a grocery store or a restaurant. But hunting is part of having liberty and freedom (even though the government sometimes interferes unnecessarily in that area minus conservation and population management techniques that actually work) to engage in an activity you enjoy. Eat meat you killed yourself. It's sport. It's also about access to different types of meat and for some people it does help them stretch a dollar. But, in 2018 there's no NEED.

Nonetheless, I'd fight just as hard for you, ghost, if someone tried to infringe on your liberty and freedom. Especially when the proposed solution just doesn't make sense and is largely driven out of emotion. If we make people watch Bambi twice before letting them vote on a hunting ban you know what would happen. Do we want our society's freedom and liberty determined by the emotional vagaries of mob rule? I don't.

 

[Evan]

I've been wanting to build an AR-10 for a while now, but I haven't had time/money. When the government wants their student loans repaid, they make sure you know.

Nothing will likely come from Trump's attempt at an AWB (he's still an idiot regardless), but it is leading to an influx of guns into circulation (not just ARs). Seems counterintuitive on the gun grabbers agenda...

There was a nice .308/7.62 upper at Palmetto State this morning for about 15 minutes, LOL. I've actually heard bad stuff about their AR-10 stuff, though. Aero Precision costs about 10-20% more than PSA, but I think the quality for AR-15 platform is better, and definitely better for AR-10 stuff.

I want to get a few .300 Blackout uppers. I think I'm about to go ahead and the to apply for a tax stamp for an SBR assuming they don't try to ban those. I just bought a 14.5" Aero M4E1 completed barreled upper with a BA Hanson match barrel. But without the tax stamp the seller has to pin and weld a muzzle break onto it. Which is fine because less recoil will be nice, but if I get a tax stamp I'll probably do a 10 inch .300 Blackout SBR with a muzzle break. Leave me at about 12.1 inches. Ideal, imo, for a SBR.

 

[ghost]

I would explain my reasoning in two different ways:

1. It's none of the government's business as Kory said and it's also simply not effective. I'll explain. Whether changing 10 round mags (limit under the original assault weapons ban) or 15 round mags the capacity is sufficient to kill. Under the old AWB you could still buy high cap magazines (grandfathered in just like the current proposal) as long as they existed prior to the ban date. Two things happened. One, it became much more difficult for law abiding citizens to get or replace their existing magazines as the price skyrocketed.

For a drug dealer, a wealthy guy like the Vegas shooter, someone that just inherited a significant chunk of money like the Parkland shooter, or the Va Tech shooter who studiously planned out his massacre (not to mention Columbine...they also used pre-ban hi-cap magazines) there's simply nothing to prevent them from getting hi-cap magazines.

As I said, the current bill also grandfathers in existing mags and people will just order huge shipments and manufacturers will produce balls to the wall until the date the ban comes into place. This time, there will be such a large number of mags on the street I don't think the price increases will be nearly as steep (early on a pre-ban Glock mag was $40 or so but it went up to $100 or more during the original AWB).

You can't confiscate mags unless you literally want civil war, so a mag ban would be incredibly impotent. People have been stockpiling dozens or hundreds of magazines since the day the past ban expired. Can't put the genie back into the bottle. Finally, as I mentioned, those that do mass shootings or commit street crime will still get the mags as they did before. All you've done is make them more expensive for millions of law abiding citizens because of the actions of a few.

2. I don't think millions of innocent, law-abiding Americans should lose their rights over the actions of criminals that will find a way to circumvent restrictions. 3-D printers are here. Printing mags or an AR-15 lower receiver is already possible with a low-level 3-D printer. 5 years from now? 10 years from now? Going to be interesting to see how we have to pay to download patents and then can print many items on our own. Criminals, of course, don't care about patents or criminal law.

Finally, from 1992/93 before the AWB until the sunset of the AWB in 2004 we has massively higher rates of gun homicides, robbery using a firearm, etc. Ironically some of the biggest decreases came AFTER 2004. If the AWB was effective that wouldn't have happened. Academic studies have been done. They either say the impacts were minimal or inconclusive. The evidence required to infringe upon my Constitutional rights should be a lot more than minimal or inconclusive.

So, that's my reasoning. It's ineffective, it punishes innocent, law-abiding citizens, it doesn't hurt criminals or mass-shooter, they can easily practice mag changes and just use standard capacity mags. The reason people in the firearms community like hi-cap mags is not in case of a Soviet invasion. It's because large mags are much easier to use at the range. You'll here some people say it also evens the playing field with the government, and that's partially true as well. For some people it's because they want to make sure they have 15 or 17 rounds in a mag in case a burglar breaks in or someone tries to rob them and starts shooting first.

My question is return is why are you so convinced that magazine capacity limits would have a positive effect? Finally, I would also pose this to you...you might say no one needs a high-capacity magazine or an AR-15. That's probably true for the vast majority of Americans. But it isn't about need. You're a hunter. You don't NEED to hunt. You can go to a grocery store or a restaurant. But hunting is part of having liberty and freedom (even though the government sometimes interferes unnecessarily in that area minus conservation and population management techniques that actually work) to engage in an activity you enjoy. Eat meat you killed yourself. It's sport. It's also about access to different types of meat and for some people it does help them stretch a dollar. But, in 2018 there's no NEED.

Nonetheless, I'd fight just as hard for you, ghost, if someone tried to infringe on your liberty and freedom. Especially when the proposed solution just doesn't make sense and is largely driven out of emotion. If we make people watch Bambi twice before letting them vote on a hunting ban you know what would happen. Do we want our society's freedom and liberty determined by the emotional vagaries of mob rule? I don't.

I appreciate your response and I understand what you are saying and agree with much of it. I agree I don't NEED to hunt, but it is something I enjoy. I enjoy the outdoors and the challenge of the hunt, eating the game I harvest, and the camaraderie of the friends and family I go hunting with.

I agree that there are so many high capacity mags in circulation, if they were made illegal and the gov't offered a buy back program to get people to turn them in, there would still be many people who would retain theirs and bad guys would find a way to access them. And I agree, with 3D printing technology going forward, there would be capability for underground manufacturing operations to produce them. So ridding society of high capacity weapons is essentially a pipe dream but it is one that I think going back over the last 30 years and knowing history going forward in the future, would benefit society if they (high capacity mags) were eliminated, which if they were, would not infringement upon our rights to bear arms for self-protection and sport. We will disagree over that point. I also don't think citizens should own grenade launchers and flame throwers even though I understand they are legal. Trying to find the right balance between liberty and prudence is hard because there are groups that want to slide the fulcrum more to the side they prefer. I think it is a good law that people are not allowed to carry weapons on an airplane or into government buildings. Through experience with human behavior, the government has decided this is prudent for the general well being of society to not allow those 2 liberties. But I support conceal carry in most instances.

I support gun ownership and I think a law abiding responsible trained citizen should be able to own any kind of handgun, rifle, shotgun that they want including the maligned AR-15 / AK-47 models and I think if they can afford it and have the room, own as many guns as they want.

I don't think the legal age of purchasing a gun should be raised to 21. If an American can serve their country at the age of 18, 19, or 20 and deemed fit and responsible to carry an M16A3 in defending our freedom, they should be able to buy any legal firearm they want.

I think if there can be a better system for background checks and monitoring/regulating gun shows that should be implemented.

I don't approve of high capacity magazines for firearms.

If I'm still around 10 years from now, I may have a different view on the points I stated above. 25 years ago I was a member of the NRA and a Rush Limbaugh dittohead. I am neither now. Things change as we evolve along this journey we call life.

 

[Kory]

What a dumpster fire.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5451879/National-Security-Advisor-H-R-McMaster-way-out.html

 

[ghost]

What a dumpster fire.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5451879/National-Security-Advisor-H-R-McMaster-way-out.html

How long is the list now of those who resigned or were fired? Also how long is the list of those who have been under investigation or indicted?

 

[ghost]

And a shotgun might be the worst home defense weapon.
*Edit to make it nicer*

A shotgun isn't as easy to wield in close quarters as a handgun, but within 50 feet, where most home defense gunfire would occur, a 12 gauge shotgun round would be more effective than a bullet fired from a handgun or rifle.

 

[Kory]

A shotgun isn't as easy to wield in close quarters as a handgun, but within 50 feet, where most home defense gunfire would occur, a 12 gauge shotgun round would be more effective than a bullet fired from a handgun or rifle.

A problem with shotguns is that you have to worry about overpenetration and striking unintended targets.