Archive 2017-2019 Political Thread

[ghost]

That is exactly my thought. If you are going to arm a teacher, it needs to be a teacher who already owns AND knows how to shoot(prior military or police training, hours upon hours of range time, etc.)

Even if you armed just a few teachers and they were highly trained, that could present a different set of problems. For instance the police get a call of an active shooter at a school and deploy their SWAT team. The team enters the school and encounter a highly tense and dangerous environment. If they encounter someone holding a gun or possibly shooting it, it would be easy for one of the armed teachers to be mistaken for the active shooter and be taken out by the SWAT team and compound a tragic situation.

 

[gangstonc]

Is it strange for a bank to loan 23.5% of its capital to one person?

 

[ghost]

Why is our society so sick today? KoD raised the point that poverty, an underperforming educational system, and other factors should be considered. That's true, isn't it? Does it help that in almost all families both parents have to work now? Does social media help? Does it help get we've turned out back on God? It's not just morals, the decline of the middle class, poverty, two parent households becoming the exception rather than the norm (and both have to work anyway), or our schools. I don't pretend that the 1950's were some ideallic time. There are many positives to our new society compared to then. But what about the negative changes?

Can we hope to end violence when evil simply exists in our world? I think we also have to be realistic and honest about our societal/cultural issues and discuss how we can address those areas. More people see the Karsdashians as a template for success than the role models we used to have like say a Mother Teresa or Roberto Clemente.

How do we help our children be idealistic while also teaching them about the vagaries of the real world? I don't pretend to have the answers.

I'm probably one of the oldest members that still hang around on TalkWeather. When I was young we played outside with our friends until dark. We played baseball, football, basketball, Army man, Cowboys, good guys vs. bad guys... etc. So unless we were playing sports, we used our imaginations. When we played Army, Cowboys, etc. we played with our toy guns. We would "shoot" each other and fall down and play dead for a few seconds... then get up and continue playing or start a new game. We were mimicking the the corny cowboy movies and TV shows of our youth. The good guys always won.. the U.S. Army always beat the Nazi's or Japanese... the good cowboys always beat the bad guys, etc. There was no blood or carnage... just a bunch of kids acting very dramatic as we went down after getting "shot".

Fast forward 50 years and what do kids play now? Halo.. Call of Duty... Grand Theft Auto...etc An extremely violent virtual world of very realistic graphics where you pick up your choice of military grade weaponry with endless high capacity clips and blow people to bits. Very realistic graphics of blood and brains flying against walls through the sights of your weapon. This apparently is very thrilling and in some cases, addicting from all the time and money some kids spend in front of a screen with a controller in their hands. I guess in the mind of the person with the right (or wrong) set of personal and/or mental problems, this could translate to a feeling of power and control that they might like to unleash on someone who they consider the source of their problems. They are desensitized to virtual human carnage through the endless hours they have spent playing these games and may start to visualize how that might play out for them in real life.

From an old Fox News article on this subject...

“I did not understand that if I…pull out a gun and shoot you, there’s a good chance you’re not getting back up,” Ramsey said in a 2007 interview from Spring Creek Correctional Center, in Seward, Alaska. “You shoot a guy in ‘Doom’ and he gets back up. You have got to shoot the things in ‘Doom’ eight or nine times before it dies.”

Since Ramsey’s 1997 rampage, several other mass killers, including Columbine shooters Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold and Norwegian mass murderer Anders Breivik, have been linked to violent video games. And some experts worry that as the games get more violent and more realistic, so does their power to blur the line between fantasy and reality in alienated gamers."

http://www.foxnews.com/tech/2013/09...share-obsession-with-violent-video-games.html

 

[gangstonc]

http://thehill.com/homenews/state-w...lare-porn-a-public-health-risk-within-an-hour

This is one of the reasons why people are so frustrated. The gun control debate needs to happen, but politicians at all levels waste their time on stupid stuff because it is a difficult problem to solve.

 

[akt1985]

I feel terrible that this poor kid not only had to experience a school shooting, but also that someone lied to him that Columbine was the first school shooting.

Are we being honest with ourselves or our kids that we can ever promise that schools will be completely safe from gun violence or other forms of violence?

As the father of two young children, it breaks my heart anytime I see loss of life. Especially among children. But are we being honest when we say we are going to make it never happen again?

Forget the current debate for a moment. Let's say we all agreed to a full gun ban and we had a program that confiscated 80% of the guns out there. That's a higher number than even Australia was able to achieve, but let's assume it is true. We are already seeing the ability to 3-D print workable firearms. In less than a decade 3-D printers will be affordable. We will never be able to control the flow of information. People will be able to print fully functioning weapons in American homes by the time my children are in High School.

Why is our society so sick today? KoD raised the point that poverty, an underperforming educational system, and other factors should be considered. That's true, isn't it? Does it help that in almost all families both parents have to work now? Does social media help? Does it help get we've turned out back on God? It's not just morals, the decline of the middle class, poverty, two parent households becoming the exception rather than the norm (and both have to work anyway), or our schools. I don't pretend that the 1950's were some ideallic time. There are many positives to our new society compared to then. But what about the negative changes?

Can we hope to end violence when evil simply exists in our world? I think we also have to be realistic and honest about our societal/cultural issues and discuss how we can address those areas. More people see the Karsdashians as a template for success than the role models we used to have like say a Mother Teresa or Roberto Clemente.

How do we help our children be idealistic while also teaching them about the vagaries of the real world? I don't pretend to have the answers.

While I’m glad the Parkland students are taking action by petitioning the government rather than sitting around and feeling sorry for themselves, I do wonder if they realize that it’s also a decline in moral values and the increasingly isolated culture that is causing all these school shootings and it is going to take things other than banning guns to stop all these mass shootings?

 

[Kory]

 

[Kory]

Several news reports of multiple mass shootings thwarted across the country. Amazing what law enforcement can do when they ACTUALLY perform their job tasks and follow through on protocol.

 

[Arcadia]

That is exactly my thought. If you are going to arm a teacher, it needs to be a teacher who already owns AND knows how to shoot(prior military or police training, hours upon hours of range time, etc.)

I think that's what I said.

 

[Arcadia]

Even if you armed just a few teachers and they were highly trained, that could present a different set of problems. For instance the police get a call of an active shooter at a school and deploy their SWAT team. The team enters the school and encounter a highly tense and dangerous environment. If they encounter someone holding a gun or possibly shooting it, it would be easy for one of the armed teachers to be mistaken for the active shooter and be taken out by the SWAT team and compound a tragic situation.

My main point was better security. Whatever form that takes is whatever form that takes. I did say maybe there were better options. I'm not married to this idea, but I don't believe allowing certain trained teachers to carry will be the castotrophe some people claim. In fact, I think it's overblown by serveral degrees. We can always come up with this scenario or that. I would imagine these would be the sort of scenarios they would sort out in training as it seems rather obvious. But as I said...the "how" we beef up security can be debated.

 

[Evan]

Not even Marco Rubio deserved what they did to him last night. Amazing how Rubio and Loesch are murderers for simply disagreeing with the politics of a total gun ban. This also means that's what they think about gun owners in general. We are murderers for believing in the 2nd amendment. It's hard for them not to visualize us mowing down their classmates. Unless, of course, we now agree with their politics.

https://hotair.com/archives/2018/02...io-hard-look-not-see-firing-ar-15-classmates/

Couple of points...

1. CNN is gone. You can't come back from that townhall. They have been functioning as a liberal advocacy group they are so far in the tank for gun grabbers.

2. I've lost a ton of respect for Jake Tapper. I think he was terrified to say anything that would have been deemed as less than 100% supportive of the Parkland kids. No call for civility or avoiding smears. This is why this entire exercise of letting these children take over the debate is so dangerous. It's Mothers Against Drunk Driving asking why you let their child die.

3. Now it's verifiable that they are not discussing or debating "sensible" gun control in good faith. Nothing less than banning all semi-automatic weapons will be accepted (almost all guns). If you oppose them you are a murderer. Or they question your skills as a mother. The Broward Sheriff showed his true colors last night. I'm not a fan of Dana Loesch, but it's one thing when kids are the ones making the vile, emotionally charged arguments. It's a totally different thing when it's an adult that should know better.

I mentioned this yesterday, but I truly feel like you cannot negotiate with people acting this way. Their only goal is to attack you and your politics while hiding behind their victim status. Sure, Rubio and Loesch chose this life and have been given a lot of power and money in return, but the smears they were hit with last night were totally disgusting. As the blog I posted mentions, these were not off-the-cuff comments in the heat of a raw, emotional tirade. These were planned remarks.

I believe these tactics will backfire. This kind of incendiary rhetoric and threats against our constitutional rights will not play well to the silent majority. It has caused me to: 1. Start defending and backing little Marco again. 2. Get my donation ready to re-join the NRA (had a one year membership years ago for free because of a firearm I purchased). 3. Going from unwilling to back a single GOP candidate in the next several elections to being unwilling to vote for anyone that isn't 100% pro-gun and 100% anti-abortion.

4. I'm putting this down here separately, as it will shock people. If Trump backs our 2nd amendment rights, and refuses any gun control, (because the other side isn't acting in good faith) then he will not only have my general election vote in 2020, but I'll become a supporter. I'll still dislike and mistrust him, and I won't overlook his immorality or flaws, but I'll be a lot more open to him. I still hope he gets successfully primaries by a solid Conservative Republican, but I'll no longer sit 2020 out if he's the nominee. A lot of people angry at the GOP and Trump are coming to the same conclusion as I am. The Democrats may end up blowing a +20 generic ballot lead because they decided to let this kind of rhetoric be the face of their efforts for "sensible" gun control. May end up being a spectacular own goal.

 

[Evan]

My main point was better security. Whatever form that takes is whatever form that takes. I did say maybe there were better options. I'm not married to this idea, but I don't believe allowing certain trained teachers to carry will be the castotrophe some people claim. In fact, I think it's overblown by serveral degrees. We can always come up with this scenario or that. I would imagine these would be the sort of scenarios they would sort out in training as it seems rather obvious. But as I said...the "how" we beef up security can be debated.

Agreed, and part of the issue is that we are somewhat relying on Trump to lead here, and the guy doesn't know guns, public schools, or teachers. So, I believe we've got to do his job for him, and help lay out tgat "arming" teachers is referring to something very selective, and would ultimately be a part of a layered approach to more security that prioritize the proper training and appropriate background for anyone armed in a school.

 

[Evan]

 

[Evan]

While I’m glad the Parkland students are taking action by petitioning the government rather than sitting around and feeling sorry for themselves, I do wonder if they realize that it’s also a decline in moral values and the increasingly isolated culture that is causing all these school shootings and it is going to take things other than banning guns to stop all these mass shootings?

I haven't heard them mention it. Have you? The enemy here doesn't seem to the shooter, the system that failed to prevent him accessing firearms, or the mistakes made by numerous parties that could've taken action before the shooting. It's clear their enemy is the GOP, the NRA, gun owners, guns, and anyone that doesn't agree with them. We're all murderers.

 

[Kory]

I haven't heard them mention it. Have you? The enemy here doesn't seem to the shooter, the system that failed to prevent him accessing firearms, or the mistakes made by numerous parties that could've taken action before the shooting. It's clear their enemy is the GOP, the NRA, gun owners, guns, and anyone that doesn't agree with them. We're all murderers.

What happened to the left’s mantra that a fringe person doesn’t represent the whole of a particular group? That is their argument with Islamic terror attacks, but it is conveniently ousted when they want to use a tragedy to gain power and moral superiority.

If they didn’t have double standards, they wouldn’t have standards at all.

 

[Evan]

I had not seen Loesch's comments at CPAC. Great job, Dana, validating people's criticism of you yesterday by acting like an unhinged nut today.

Love where this country is headed.

Liberals: You're murderers.
Conservatives: You're a crisis actor.

Excellent dialogue. I'm sure we'll solve the gun violence issue now.

 

[Evan]

What happened to the left’s mantra that a fringe person doesn’t represent the whole of a particular group? That is their argument with Islamic terror attacks, but it is conveniently ousted when they want to use a tragedy to gain power and moral superiority.

If they didn’t have double standards, they wouldn’t have standards at all.

Dana Loesch today isn't helping. Neither is people calling the victims crisis actors. We can criticize the survivors for their rhetoric and refusal to seek middle ground without doing nasty crap like that.

To be clear, Loesch didn't say stuff about crisis actors, but at least one CPAC speaker had to be disinvited for personally attacking the survivors instead of criticizing their rhetoric and ideas. Loesch decided, however, that she was going to address media bias on guns by accusing the media of essentially enjoying mass shootings.

Where are the sensible people?

By the way...I had not seen Trump's tweet when I said he might defend our 2nd amendment rights. Oh, well. Giving up bump stocks is a useless platitude that won't save lives. I can agree with raising the age on rifles to 21 since handguns are already regulated in this fashion, and we have scientific evidence that people's brains and critical thinking skills are way less developed at 18 than 21. Needs a carve-out for military members, though.

I see where AR15.com is not happy. Did you see what some are saying about Trump? Now, I don't agree with their extreme position that many over there have that guns should be unregulated (which is absurd), but I am enjoying how quickly they are turning on him.

 

[Matt]

And not just during school hours. I picked my daughter up from an afterschool event yesterday at 4pm. Lunchroom had about 75+ afterschool care kids and the gym had 25+ kids for cheerleading. I was able to waltz right in through the side door. Definitely no SROs or security around. During the day the school has the doors locked and you have to be buzzed in via the office, but it is a minor impediment, and there are loopholes to get in through a back or side door if you pay attention. Absolutely agree with your points.

I find it hard to believe that less than a week after the Florida event you were able to get is that easily. Did you bring it up to school administration ? I no longer have school age children but you or someone should bring this up. And now!

 

[Evan]

I find it hard to believe that less than a week after the Florida event you were able to get is that easily. Did you bring it up to school administration ? I no longer have school age children but you or someone should bring this up. And now!

I'm planning on it. Not just this issue, but other issues of security as well. The side door is ALWAYS unlocked after 3pm so people can pickup from after school care and other events. I'm actually concerned it may be unlocked during the day sometimes as well.

You should see how buses are loaded in the afternoon and the chaos that takes place. I believe the school is doing the best they can, but it is severely overcrowded. The playground is also completely accessible to someone that just walks up and parks at the school. Only a waist-length chain fence that prevents someone from jumping over and being on the playground with tons of children. And, the back edge (it is essentially a field) trees and a totally insecure area next to another open field and train tracks. A sicko could sneak right onto the playground from that area. I don't even want to imagine what a couple of terrorists working together could do.

I'm not going to name the school for obvious reasons. But I've strong reason to believe the school isn't alone in how soft of a target it is. We don't spend nearly enough on education in Alabama, and an overcrowded, insecure school is a disaster waiting to happen. It's partially the fault of people living here. We could've incorporated and worked at getting our own school system (unlike Gardendale, segregation concerns wouldn't be an issue here), but you had a lot of old geezers that didn't want to end up paying more taxes, and a lack of political care and organization. We send our tax dollars to Bessemer at the shopping centers around here yet being unincorporated we get nothing in return. Could've been our revenue, but the NIMBYs won.

I want to see the school fix some of the issues I mentioned, but until they get the new school built and re-zone some areas it will be tough because it is severely overcrowded. I believe in public schools. Really don't want to do private, but may have to in the future. That said, I know we are only talking about an average of 20 school homicides a year. But no one ever thinks it will be there school or kid impacted. There are improvements that can be made, but I don't see the political will for more school funding to actually make it happen.

Alabama is due for a mass shooting soon enough. Hopefully not, and hopefully it won't happen at a school, but we certainly don't do a great job with hardening targets in this state outside of some churches.

 

[Kory]

I'm planning on it. Not just this issue, but other issues of security as well. The side door is ALWAYS unlocked after 3pm so people can pickup from after school care and other events. I'm actually concerned it may be unlocked during the day sometimes as well.

You should see how buses are loaded in the afternoon and the chaos that takes place. I believe the school is doing the best they can, but it is severely overcrowded. The playground is also completely accessible to someone that just walks up and parks at the school. Only a waist-length chain fence that prevents someone from jumping over and being on the playground with tons of children. And, the back edge (it is essentially a field) trees and a totally insecure area next to another open field and train tracks. A sicko could sneak right onto the playground from that area. I don't even want to imagine what a couple of terrorists working together could do.

I'm not going to name the school for obvious reasons. But I've strong reason to believe the school isn't alone in how soft of a target it is. We don't spend nearly enough on education in Alabama, and an overcrowded, insecure school is a disaster waiting to happen. It's partially the fault of people living here. We could've incorporated and worked at getting our own school system (unlike Gardendale, segregation concerns wouldn't be an issue here), but you had a lot of old geezers that didn't want to end up paying more taxes, and a lack of political care and organization. We send our tax dollars to Bessemer at the shopping centers around here yet being unincorporated we get nothing in return. Could've been our revenue, but the NIMBYs won.

I want to see the school fix some of the issues I mentioned, but until they get the new school built and re-zone some areas it will be tough because it is severely overcrowded. I believe in public schools. Really don't want to do private, but may have to in the future. That said, I know we are only talking about an average of 20 school homicides a year. But no one ever thinks it will be there school or kid impacted. There are improvements that can be made, but I don't see the political will for more school funding to actually make it happen.

Alabama is due for a mass shooting soon enough. Hopefully not, and hopefully it won't happen at a school, but we certainly don't do a great job with hardening targets in this state outside of some churches.

UA is finally hardening security. It used to be a joke to get in Bryant Denny, but now we're getting metal detectors, bag size limits, and more police dogs. As little as a couple years ago, you could walk right in. Little, old ticket checkers smiling and saying "enjoy the game." That was it. No pat down, no checks...nothing. They still have a ways to go with regards to other events and crowd gatherings.

They're also putting up car barricades around campus to deploy during gameday...I guess in response to car attacks. I'm glad to see those kinds of proactive steps.

 

[Mike S]

It is obviously not up to me how to tell someone to parent their child, but this seems like a missed teaching opportunity to me. What is this child going to do the next time she sees a police officer? Freak out?