Archive 2017-2019 Political Thread

[Lori]

I don't know how I feel about this, could it be something we need one day? Could it have been done with more forethought and a time period given rather than how things were handled? It just doesn't feel like it was handled correctly. Is it because we've lived in such a politically correct limbo since Clinton was in office or am I still scared a narcissist is running my country?
I was surprised to find out...

Trump didn’t select seven “Muslim-majority” countries. US President Barack Obama’s administration selected these seven Muslim-majority countries.

https://sethfrantzman.com/2017/01/2...lim-ban-possible-and-the-media-wont-tell-you/

 

[Evan]

I don't know how I feel about this, could it be something we need one day? Could it have been done with more forethought and a time period given rather than how things were handled? It just doesn't feel like it was handled correctly. Is it because we've lived in such a politically correct limbo since Clinton was in office or am I still scared a narcissist is running my country?
I was surprised to find out...

Trump didn’t select seven “Muslim-majority” countries. US President Barack Obama’s administration selected these seven Muslim-majority countries.

https://sethfrantzman.com/2017/01/2...lim-ban-possible-and-the-media-wont-tell-you/

I don't know if that guy is just confused or purposely disingenuous about what actually happened, but I will try to give some background. Back in 2015, during the Omnibus spending package debate, there was debate about improving the visa waiver program in response to terror attacks in Europe and elsewhere being conducted by dual nationals of European countries. In other words, a French citizen that was born in Syria that committed an act of terrorism.

The VWP (Visa Waiver Program) is only a limited number of countries. Many of them are found in Europe or are high-income Western nations. Instead of requiring those nationals to obtain a visa to visit the US (like most other people from other countries are required to obtain), the VWP allows citizens of those countries to enter the US without applying for a Visa. In many cases all they have to do is go online and put in their travel info, and then when they arrive to the US they are processed without the need of a visa.

Part of the function of the VWP is so that American citizens don't require visas to enter other Western countries like the UK, France, Germany, etc. It is a mutually beneficial program. However, with the war in Syria and the rise of ISIS, it became apparent that dual nationals of those counties could exploit the VWP to enter the US without receiving the scrutiny that a typical Syrian or Iraqi citizen would receive (because they require a visa to be able to travel to the US).

So Congress decided that they would restrict the VWP for people who were a dual national of certain countries (specifically Iraq and Syria) or had recently visited those countries with certain exceptions. They were not banned from coming. They just were required to get a visa instead of being able to enter under the VWP.

Furthermore, Congress set up a number of specific criteria and ordered DHS to identify any other country that might fit those criteria, and then add those countries to the list. That included countries that were listed as state sponsors of terror (like Iran) as well as countries that had a high number of citizens that had entered or exited Syria and Iraq. There were several other criteria, but the DHS (Obama admin) was required by law to identify those countries per the legislation that Congress passed that was inserted into the Omnibus spending bill.

Of course Obama signed this into law because the huge Omnibus appropriations bill was required to be signed into law or the government would shutdown.

So, I'm not saying the Obama administration doesn't have any blame for those countries being identified as high risk to begin with, they absolutely could have shut the government down over that legislation being part of the Omnibus, but they obviously chose not to. And, of course, the Obama admin probably didn't completely oppose limiting the VWP because nobody has a right to be a part of the VWP, and with the number of dual nationals being suspected as part of terror plots (at that time) it wasn't illogical to require a higher level of scrutiny and make them apply for a visa.

I would think everyone can see that requiring someone to apply for a visa instead of being allowed to enter the US without one is completely and totally different than being banned from entering the United States even if you are a United States Legal Permanent Resident or risked your life translating for or serving our military in Iraq.

Just wanted to clarify because Trump certainly wasn't required to use those 7 countries or any country at all. He could have just included Saudi Arabia, Egypt, and Lebanon if he had wanted to. It was completely his decision and actually quite different than being required by law to increase the scrutiny of certain travelers from certain countries (which is what the Obama administration was required by Congress to do).

 

[Evan]

This is how I feel on refugee resettlement...I don't like my tax dollars going to resettle folks from foreign countries. We have glaring homelessness in this country....some are veterans who have sacrificed it all for our sake. Why not help resettle them first? It's not so much the danger of refugees because the risk from them are extremely low (although the Somali resettlement in Minnesota has really shown the potential for radicalization from refugees). It's the fact that taxpayer money isn't going to help benefit citizens of this country first....

If I want to help refugees, why can't I donate to Catholic Charities who has helped resettle many? It shouldn't be the burden of the taxpayer here....

Of course, better vetting of those folks will benefit everybody. There's no arguing against that from me.

Again, the number of refugees impacted that would have come from those 7 countries is actually quite small. It is the complete travel ban that seems to be the issue for most people including me. Furthermore, although you didn't mention this and I understand your sentiments completely, this also completely stopped the refugee process for anyone from any country. Not just the 7 he identified. That means refugees from other countries... like say Haiti have also been banned from coming even if their case was recently approved, they have a job and housing lined up, and they were just waiting to travel.

That said, a lot of refugee resettlement is actually handled by religious groups. But tax dollars will always be involved to an extent because the criteria for the program and admission to the United States is obviously a government program, and refugees require some type of immigration visa or status to be able to travel to, enter, and reside in the United States.

 

[Evan]

CBP at Dulles is refusing to obey a federal court order that specifically ordered CBP to allow attorneys to access those being held up by the executive order.












Hard to believe that CBP is still confused 17 hours later about a 1 page court order and that the DOJ (responsible for enforcing the court order) is unaware. CBP refuses to speak with any Congressman or Senator, acknowledge or accept the court order, and there is zero public comment from CBP, DHS, or the DOJ.

The Trump administration has not obtained a stay of the various federal court orders that order CBP to allow those impacted to have access to counsel in the airport. That means, if they are not complying with the court order it is intentional. Been almost a day -- hard to say you are confused at this point.

It took Trump only a week to create a Constitutional crisis. Whether you agree with the Executive order or not or whether you like Trump or not -- the Executive branch must defer to a federal court order unless they get a stay or an appellate court hears the case and overturns the order.

So is the Administration just incompetent or willfully ignoring the Constitution? Neither is very good.

 

[Evan]

One other quick point:

There are multiple accounts from attorneys, affected person, and family members stating that visa holders have been coerced into surrendering their visa by being threatened with a five year ban from the US unless they voluntarily surrendered their visa and accepted deportation. This has even occurred after federal court orders were issued blocking CBP from deporting those impacted by the Executive Order.

There are also several credible accounts of Legal Permanent Residents (green card holders) being coerced into signing similar paperwork or documents and voluntarily accepting deportation after being threatened with bans or similar restrictions.

DHS Secretary Kelly issued a statement earlier today stating LPRs should no longer be subject to the Executive Order but will face additional scrutiny. This comes after DHS tried to make this the initial policy and Bannon and Miller overruled DHS. Where is President Trump in all of this?

Here is one link discussing the coerced visa surrendering, but I can provide dozens of links if anyone believes I am exaggerating. I'm not. Wish I was. This is all like a surreal nightmare.

https://www.aclusocal.org/en/news/lax-detentions

 

[Evan]

CBP at Dulles is refusing to obey a federal court order that specifically ordered CBP to allow attorneys to access those being held up by the executive order.








Hard to believe that CBP is still confused 17 hours later about a 1 page court order and that the DOJ (responsible for enforcing the court order) is unaware. CBP refuses to speak with any Congressman or Senator, acknowledge or accept the court order, and there is zero public comment from CBP, DHS, or the DOJ.

The Trump administration has not obtained a stay of the various federal court orders that order CBP to allow those impacted to have access to counsel in the airport. That means, if they are not complying with the court order it is intentional. Been almost a day -- hard to say you are confused at this point.

It took Trump only a week to create a Constitutional crisis. Whether you agree with the Executive order or not or whether you like Trump or not -- the Executive branch must defer to a federal court order unless they get a stay or an appellate court hears the case and overturns the order.

So is the Administration just incompetent or willfully ignoring the Constitution? Neither is very good.

Only 5 tweets are allowed to be embedded at a time. These belong to this post.

 

[Lori]

I don't know if that guy is just confused or purposely disingenuous about what actually happened, but I will try to give some background. Back in 2015, during the Omnibus spending package debate, there was debate about improving the visa waiver program in response to terror attacks in Europe and elsewhere being conducted by dual nationals of European countries. In other words, a French citizen that was born in Syria that committed an act of terrorism.

The VWP (Visa Waiver Program) is only a limited number of countries. Many of them are found in Europe or are high-income Western nations. Instead of requiring those nationals to obtain a visa to visit the US (like most other people from other countries are required to obtain), the VWP allows citizens of those countries to enter the US without applying for a Visa. In many cases all they have to do is go online and put in their travel info, and then when they arrive to the US they are processed without the need of a visa.

Part of the function of the VWP is so that American citizens don't require visas to enter other Western countries like the UK, France, Germany, etc. It is a mutually beneficial program. However, with the war in Syria and the rise of ISIS, it became apparent that dual nationals of those counties could exploit the VWP to enter the US without receiving the scrutiny that a typical Syrian or Iraqi citizen would receive (because they require a visa to be able to travel to the US).

So Congress decided that they would restrict the VWP for people who were a dual national of certain countries (specifically Iraq and Syria) or had recently visited those countries with certain exceptions. They were not banned from coming. They just were required to get a visa instead of being able to enter under the VWP.

Furthermore, Congress set up a number of specific criteria and ordered DHS to identify any other country that might fit those criteria, and then add those countries to the list. That included countries that were listed as state sponsors of terror (like Iran) as well as countries that had a high number of citizens that had entered or exited Syria and Iraq. There were several other criteria, but the DHS (Obama admin) was required by law to identify those countries per the legislation that Congress passed that was inserted into the Omnibus spending bill.

Of course Obama signed this into law because the huge Omnibus appropriations bill was required to be signed into law or the government would shutdown.

So, I'm not saying the Obama administration doesn't have any blame for those countries being identified as high risk to begin with, they absolutely could have shut the government down over that legislation being part of the Omnibus, but they obviously chose not to. And, of course, the Obama admin probably didn't completely oppose limiting the VWP because nobody has a right to be a part of the VWP, and with the number of dual nationals being suspected as part of terror plots (at that time) it wasn't illogical to require a higher level of scrutiny and make them apply for a visa.

I would think everyone can see that requiring someone to apply for a visa instead of being allowed to enter the US without one is completely and totally different than being banned from entering the United States even if you are a United States Legal Permanent Resident or risked your life translating for or serving our military in Iraq.

Just wanted to clarify because Trump certainly wasn't required to use those 7 countries or any country at all. He could have just included Saudi Arabia, Egypt, and Lebanon if he had wanted to. It was completely his decision and actually quite different than being required by law to increase the scrutiny of certain travelers from certain countries (which is what the Obama administration was required by Congress to do).

The main reason I brought up the "list" wasn't concerning the reasoning behind this move as much as I've seen on news and other media outlets, people questioning the list of countries, instead of other countries that have had actual immigrants conduct terrorists attacks on American soil and I've read and heard people say, Obama made this particular list.

While we're mentioning Obama, I'm wondering if all the things Obama has signed quietly in the WH before he left a little over a week ago is still unknown. It's just coming to a lot of people's attention the banning of lead in State Parks when hunting fish and game....

 

[WesL]

It's just coming to a lot of people's attention the banning of lead in State Parks when hunting fish and game....

You meant federal lands...

 

[WesL]

Uber apparently has drivers mixed up in all this...


It's important that as a community we do everything we can to help these drivers. Here's what Uber will do:
• Provide 24/7 legal support for drivers who are trying to get back into the country. Our lawyers and immigration experts will be on call 24/7 to help.
• Compensate drivers for their lost earnings. This will help them support their families and put food on the table while they are banned from the US.
• Urge the government to reinstate the right of US residents to travel—whatever their country of origin—immediately.
• Create a $3 million legal defense fund to help drivers with immigration and translation services.

 

[Lori]

You meant federal lands...

Yes, Federal!! I did that earlier when I was telling Nathan! UGH! Sorry y'all!!

 

[WesL]

Yes, Federal!! I did that earlier when I was telling Nathan! UGH! Sorry y'all!!

LOL well just this once we allow you to have a mistake...

 

[KoD]

 

[gangstonc]

LOL well just this once we allow you to have a mistake...

Ban her!

 

[Evan]

More information on CBP implementing this in as mean-spirited and unequal way as possible. Charging people with violating immigration law for not knowing EO was issued while they were on a plane. Subjects then to a 5 year ban. Also coercing permanent residents into giving up their residency in exchange for not being banned for 5 years. And, unilateral cancellation of visas a week before the EO was issued along with a 5 year ban for not being a mind reader.

https://theintercept.com/2017/01/29/trumps-muslim-ban-triggers-chaos-heartbreak-and-resistance/

 

[Evan]

The main reason I brought up the "list" wasn't concerning the reasoning behind this move as much as I've seen on news and other media outlets, people questioning the list of countries, instead of other countries that have had actual immigrants conduct terrorists attacks on American soil and I've read and heard people say, Obama made this particular list.

While we're mentioning Obama, I'm wondering if all the things Obama has signed quietly in the WH before he left a little over a week ago is still unknown. It's just coming to a lot of people's attention the banning of lead in State Parks when hunting fish and game....

Yeah I'm just saying Obama didn't make the list. Congress established it and then legally required DHS to add any additional countries to it that fit the criteria they established.

 

[gangstonc]

Canadian PM is clueless

Kevin Booker has deleted that tweet. He is also a nutjob.

DONT trust the MsM, but do trust a random weirdo on twitter as long as he tells you what you want.

 

[Evan]

Canadian PM is clueless

I guess he was clued in enough not to post fake news like you are.

You don't think he knew about witness reports that the shooters had Québécois accent? It only took about 10 seconds of Googling to contradict the fake news you posted.

http://www.cbc.ca/beta/news/canada/montreal/quebec-city-mosque-gun-shots-1.3957686



Now please explain how a recent Syrian refugee would have a strong Quebec accent.

 

[Kory]

How could this attack ever happen? One of the weapons used was "an AK-47" per police. That gun is restricted under Canadian law. And then a handgun requires strict licensing to get. It's just baffling how evil people will get their hands on things, regardless of law, to commit horrific acts.

And I'm reading one of the suspects is of Moroccan origin and they shouted "Allahu akbar."

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4170500/Five-dead-GUNMEN-open-fire-Mosque-Quebec-City.html

 

[Matt]

Time for some levity.

 

[Lori]

Ban her!

Naw, if I'm going to be banned, I want to do something big time bad!!