Congressman Shot

Discussion in 'Politics' started by ghost, Jun 14, 2017.

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  1. ghost

    ghost Member
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    Two quotes from Trump...
    "I could stand in the middle of 5th ave and shoot somebody and I wouldn't lose any voters"

    Concerning a protester... "I would like to hit him in the face"
     
  2. Matt

    Matt Member

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    Trump made that comment in jest at a campaign rally. In no way was he inciting violence. Was he punched in the face ?
     
  3. Evan

    Evan Member

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    Thankfully he made it to a trauma center well within the Golden hour. Concerned not only about him pulling through but any permanent injuries. Hoping for a miracle. Latest update doesn't sound great.
     
  4. Evan

    Evan Member

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    I said I'm not going to get into a tit-for-tat and I'm not going to do it. You continue to miss the point. I can find a counter-example from the GOP for EVERY article you post.

    The idea of we are better and they are sick is exactly what this shooter believed.

    If you've gotten to the point where you have dehumanized your political opponents, or can only see bad in them, and virtue in those that believe similar to you, then it isn't much of a stretch to become violent.

    Propaganda from WWI, WWII, Vietnam, and the Cold War all show some common themes. Dehumanize opponents, claim to be the only ones that are virtuous, and demonstrate constantly that the "other" has no redeeming qualities, is evil, and trying to corrupt society and youth. That's why it became easy for Nazis to do what they did without thinking. They were conditioned to see Jews as animals... less than animals, really.

    When that point gets reached what's the point of talking? People might as well just pull out their guns and shoot each other. That's why going down this road ends in ruin.

    I hope everyone realized that Congress realized this as well yesterday hence the new bipartisan push and agreement to be civil and respectful. I think people forget that Party leaders, Congress, etc know that the extreme positions out there aren't true. But they are useful temporarily during elections and during political crisis as a means of motivation and dogmatic control. The issue is they've stopped going back and letting people know that the extreme rhetoric and propaganda isn't true or is hyperbole.
     
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  5. ghost

    ghost Member
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    Whether he said it in jest or not.. there's a group of his sheeple zombies that will take anything he says literally and react. So don't go play the Repubs are holier than thou card because it is a joker.



     
  6. Matt

    Matt Member

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    I am not saying Trump supporters are pure as the wind driven so. In many of those cases the protesters were the aggressor and received push back. But you cannot deny that since the election the left and it MSM affiliates have been 24/7 Trump hating establishments. There is a play in Central Park performing daily that ends with a character that looks like Trump being slashed to death. Adaptation of Caesar or not it is not necessary.

    [​IMG]
     
  7. ghost

    ghost Member
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    I agree it's horrible and who knows what effect it will have on the far left Soros sheeple zombies? There are people on the extremes of both sides who's political ideology is their god and they are radicalized to where they can justify the use of force to impose that ideology on those that disagree. It's very crucial that those in power on both sides, to be careful in how they word their opposition to the other side to avoid inflaming some of these radicals.
     
  8. Matt

    Matt Member

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    Agreed.
     
  9. ghost

    ghost Member
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    I know there are renewed cries from those on the left to have increased gun control in light of the latest shooting in Alexandria. I am totally in favor of private citizens having the right to own and use guns in the proper setting. I'm a gun owner. I hunt and have 4 shotguns and a rifle. I also have a pistol. But as a gun owner, I see zero reason for a private citizen to own an automatic or semi-auto (AR or AK or other) that has a clip that holds 30 rounds. If you are hunting or shooting target practice, 5 or 6 rounds are plenty. Allowing people to have guns that hold 30-40 rounds that can be emptied in 10-15 seconds is exactly what a terrorist or mass murder dreams of. Instead of gun control, how about ammo capacity control?
     
  10. gangstonc

    gangstonc Member

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    I'm all for capacity control generally, but I once had a group of 16 trespassers on my property. Thankfully, they weren't violent, but I did want more than one round for each of them. It's a difficult problem to solve.
     
  11. Matt

    Matt Member

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    Are you suggesting limiting gun owners to one magazine only with 30 round or less capacity ? Just trying to understand.
     
  12. ghost

    ghost Member
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    I don't understand why a private citizen needs a gun that can hold 30 or more rounds in a weapon that can empty that clip in 10 sec. Hunters and target enthusiasts don't need that firepower to enjoy their sports. However, terrorists who want to kill as many people as fast as they can do. IMO if all magazines were limited to 5 or 6 rounds, a lot more people would live in these terrorist attacks.
     
  13. Matt

    Matt Member

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    But what about the high capacity magazines that are already in existence and in the hands of the bad guys ? If I am limited to 5-6 rounds and a home invader has 30-40 I'm screwed under your plan. If I am playing baseball in in Alexandria, Va. and am being shot at by a nut with 100 rounds and all I have is 5-6 I am screwed. No way Ghost.
     
  14. ghost

    ghost Member
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    Yes I agree we have gone so far down the slippery slope with liberal gun and ammo capacity laws that it would be really difficult to get the availability of these out of the bad guys hands. I'm not sure what would work. I would focus on the high capacity clips instead of the gun. Maybe you could offer people a monetary incentive to turn in the ones (high capacity clips) they have... after a probationary period, make the possession of one a felony. Those caught in underground trafficking would face a mandatory 10 year prison sentence with 2nd offense life sentence. Those caught committing a crime with one in possession, automatic life w/o parole. You don't see terrorists looking to kill masses with a double barrel 12 gauge. I fear that one day in the near future we will have a shooter in a high rise overlooking an outdoor event where hundreds or thousands are assembled and have him empty 3 or 4 of these high capacity clips into the crowd at long range before the crowd can scatter.
     
  15. Evan

    Evan Member

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    You can 3D print magazines or make your own. Something being illegal won't stop someone who's decided to murder folks.
     
  16. ghost

    ghost Member
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    Like I said, it would be a difficult problem to solve just as your post shows. But I believe it would be worth the effort. Make the punishment severe for those caught in possession or manufacturing and trafficking to civilians. (speaking of high capacity clips, not guns)
     
  17. Evan

    Evan Member

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    I don't believe millions of law abiding Americans should be punished and have their rights restricted due to the actions of a few. As we've seen in the UK, if it isn't guns it will be knives, trucks, vans, bombs, etc.

    In a free society we have to make tradeoffs in exchange for our rights. I'm an AR-15 owner, and I have numerous 30 round magazines. All of my handguns have high capacity magazines. I'm not willing to have to face an intruder or criminal that doesn't care about the law, with only 10rds, and allow him to kill my family because he has high capacity magazines.

    There's a plethora of reasons I could add here. Magazine restrictions during the AWB era didn't stop mass shootings, and certain states that have capacity restrictions still have mass shootings. Again, with the freedom we have in this country, if someone is intent on doing harm, they will be able to do so, and clearly the legality of what they are doing doesn't matter to them.

    Because of our porous borders, the millions of high capacity magazines already in circulation, the ability to 3D print or even just fab your own magazines with access to readily available equipment, I'd don't see how any plan would work any better than just an outright gun ban.

    There is no silver bullet. There are a variety of things we can do with the mental growth system, reviewing what kind of crimes or police encounters can cause you to face firearm restrictions, and better reporting, but there isn't a one size fits all approach that will make people stop killing each other.

    I think there's a similar issue with drug addiction and the war on drugs. Obviously, our current results with gun violence and with drug addiction are both very dissatisfying. But I don't think there are easy answers.
     
  18. ghost

    ghost Member
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    Evan... I hear what you are saying and I understand your concern about self defense, but I still think the greater good to our society would be to eliminate the high capacity magazines. I do realize that this would be very hard to implement and verify and it could well be a pipe dream, but I would support it if I ever had a chance with my vote.
     
  19. Daryl

    Daryl Member

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