Archive 2017-2019 Political Thread

Matt said:

I agree with a good portion of this. However, your hatred of Trump leads you astray at times. You need to look at what he has actually accomplished in a very short period of time. The 60-70 % you speak of have lead us to where we are today. 20 Trillion dollar debt, many more trillions in unfunded mandates, a collapsing infrastructure, a deteriorating social climate, a ruination of the finest health care system in the world, the creation of a permanent and elitist ruling class, the complete degradation of our education system and the total dependence on government by millions of Americans. I think you would agree this is unacceptable and drastic changes must be made if we are to salvage this country.

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I don't hate Trump. I actually feel sorry for him. People with dementia often suffer depression alongside their neuro-cognitive decline. He must be terrified, and all the sycophants around him aren't allowing him to get the treatment he needs. They tell him he's great and wonderful, and most mornings he probably needs half-an-hour to calm down and realize where he is that day. It's quite sad, really.

Evan said:

I don't hate Trump. I actually feel sorry for him. People with dementia often suffer depression alongside their neuro-cognitive decline. He must be terrified, and all the sycophants around him aren't allowing him to get the treatment he needs. They tell him he's great and wonderful, and most mornings he probably needs half-an-hour to calm down and realize where he is that day. It's quite sad, really.

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This statement of yours is pretty sad Evan.

Matt said:

This statement of yours is pretty sad Evan.

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It is. Hillary has Parkinson's, and now Trump is struggling with am aggressive form of dementia. We were screwed either way.

Here is a great example from today:



Watch is face and how he moves his hands and arms. It is obvious that he only partially recognizes what the object is, and when he goes to handle it he actually stoops down because he no longer has the ability to use fine motor control to do the type of normal tasks that you or I would be able to do. His brain is sending improper signals to his body, so instead of just reach down and over his body is confused and tries to stoop down instead. As I said, it is really sad.

I'm glad that people warned us about Hillary and Parkinson's. Not sure why some of the same folks aren't trying to warn us about Trump's condition. But, hey, just like the video of Hillary at the 9/11 ceremony , at least we can all see it for ourselves.

Evan said:

It is. Hillary has Parkinson's, and now Trump is struggling with am aggressive form of dementia. We were screwed either way.

Here is a great example from today:



Watch is face and how he moves his hands and arms. It is obvious that he only partially recognizes what the object is, and when he goes to handle it he actually stoops down because he no longer has the ability to use fine motor control to do the type of normal tasks that you or I would be able to do. His brain is sending improper signals to his body, so instead of just reach down and over his body is confused and tries to stoop down instead. As I said, it is really sad.

I'm glad that people warned us about Hillary and Parkinson's. Not sure why some of the same folks aren't trying to warn us about Trump's condition. But, hey, just like the video of Hillary at the 9/11 ceremony , at least we can all see it for ourselves.

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Well, I certainly cannot diagnose dementia from a video but if you are correct we will have President Pence soon and he will carry on just fine in my opinion.

Evan said:

It is. Hillary has Parkinson's, and now Trump is struggling with am aggressive form of dementia. We were screwed either way.

Here is a great example from today:



Watch is face and how he moves his hands and arms. It is obvious that he only partially recognizes what the object is, and when he goes to handle it he actually stoops down because he no longer has the ability to use fine motor control to do the type of normal tasks that you or I would be able to do. His brain is sending improper signals to his body, so instead of just reach down and over his body is confused and tries to stoop down instead. As I said, it is really sad.

I'm glad that people warned us about Hillary and Parkinson's. Not sure why some of the same folks aren't trying to warn us about Trump's condition. But, hey, just like the video of Hillary at the 9/11 ceremony , at least we can all see it for ourselves.

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Evan said:

It is. Hillary has Parkinson's, and now Trump is struggling with am aggressive form of dementia. We were screwed either way.

Here is a great example from today:



Watch is face and how he moves his hands and arms. It is obvious that he only partially recognizes what the object is, and when he goes to handle it he actually stoops down because he no longer has the ability to use fine motor control to do the type of normal tasks that you or I would be able to do. His brain is sending improper signals to his body, so instead of just reach down and over his body is confused and tries to stoop down instead. As I said, it is really sad.

I'm glad that people warned us about Hillary and Parkinson's. Not sure why some of the same folks aren't trying to warn us about Trump's condition. But, hey, just like the video of Hillary at the 9/11 ceremony , at least we can all see it for ourselves.

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Your going to have to show more than a video such as this to convince me that he has dementia. I think you're reaching unless you can show something else.

JayF said:

Your going to have to show more than a video such as this to convince me that he has dementia. I think you're reaching unless you can show something else.

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Do you not remember all the things posted about Hillary having Parkinson's based off of her facial expressions, the 9/11 fainting spell, and her shrill laughter in certain places? It was said then that the only evidence needed is just a video, a guess , and a random person that claims to be a doctor saying the symptoms fit.

Evan said:

Do you not remember all the things posted about Hillary having Parkinson's based off of her facial expressions, the 9/11 fainting spell, and her shrill laughter in certain places? It was said then that the only evidence needed is just a video, a guess , and a random person that claims to be a doctor saying the symptoms fit.

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There were obvious fainting and seizures seen on video by her. Please tell me again where you can tell he has dementia by this video? I am not a huge Trump fan but I make sure I understand the facts where there are facts and Bologna where I see it. You can't definitively say he has dementia by looking at that video. Looks like someone paying attention to what he is being told to me. But if you want to make stuff up, go right ahead. I won't stop you.

JayF said:

There were obvious fainting and seizures seen on video by her. Please tell me again where you can tell he has dementia by this video? I am not a huge Trump fan but I make sure I understand the facts where there are facts and Bologna where I see it. You can't definitively say he has dementia by looking at that video. Looks like someone paying attention to what he is being told to me. But if you want to make stuff up, go right ahead. I won't stop you.

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I think in this case he's mocking the people that did that with Hillary, as opposed to actually believing this stuff about Trump.

JayF said:

There were obvious fainting and seizures seen on video by her. Please tell me again where you can tell he has dementia by this video? I am not a huge Trump fan but I make sure I understand the facts where there are facts and Bologna where I see it. You can't definitively say he has dementia by looking at that video. Looks like someone paying attention to what he is being told to me. But if you want to make stuff up, go right ahead. I won't stop you.

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He is kidding.

Matt said:

Well, I certainly cannot diagnose dementia from a video but if you are correct we will have President Pence soon and he will carry on just fine in my opinion.

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I don't know if Trump has dementia or not. But, that's exactly my point -- that didn't prevent people from saying the same about Hillary. But, if Trump had signs of dementia do you trust that any of the sycophants in his cabinet or on his staff would ever admit it? Here is where we have a strong disagreement: I don't believe Trump has accomplished ANYTHING of significance other than damaging institutions and making our politics even more corrosive.

Remember the Ford Plant and the Carrier jobs?

https://www.axios.com/carrier-moving-jobs-trump-vowed-to-save-to-mexico-2446291250.html

There are two ways to look at the recent announcements that these companies are doing what Trump said they weren't going to do. One, he was snookered and they played him (which doesn't say much for Trump's deal making skills), or two, all the announcements that he "cut a deal" and "saved jobs" were simply window-dressing and theater to make it APPEAR as if Trump had taken quick and decisive action and was keeping his promises to save jobs. I'm a firm believer that Trump did have an opportunity to temporarily delay automation, job losses to other countries, and the erosion of employment opportunities for the working class. But, it required that he not just make threats but act on them. So far, Trump's tactic has been to make a controversial threat/tweet, and then "negotiate" a deal that allowed both him and the entity he went after to save face and make it a win-win. However, once a bit of time passed and his adherents were suitably impressed that he was accomplishing amazing things, the entities went on to do what they were going to do anyway. Remember Trump saying China was going to reign in North Korea? They have conducted numerous missile launches since then, and China has actually increased their economic trade with North Korea significantly. Trump's response? He says China tried and that's all that matters. Remember how Trump said China was a currency maniupulator and stealing jobs? After meeting with China's President for 10 minutes he changed his mind. Remember how he was going to build a wall and make Mexico pat for it? Not a single brick has been laid. Now, he's floating a ridiculous plan to put solar panels on the wall in an attempt to fund it and get Democrats on board.

This isn't a naive politician trying to find his way. This is classic Trump in action. Make an outlandish announcement, get the press and media attention, and then quietly settle for almost nothing of what you originally announced. What's the purpose? To convince people of his brilliance and ability. It is the work of a con-artist or a showman who never cares about the results. Trump said it himself in his books. People want to believe. Sell them a dream and sprinkle in what they'd like to see happen. They will buy it.

So what has Trump accomplished?

Travel ban? Blocked.
Qatar/Saudi fight
China pressuring NK? China tried.
China manipulating their currency? I changed my mind.
Comey tapes? Don't have them. I was bluffing.
Carrier/Ford? Doing what they planned to do anyway.
Secret plan to defeat ISIS? More bombing and boots on the ground and a new deployment of soldiers to Afghanistan. Trump said he knew more than the Generals, but he's given them carte blanche to do what they want. There was no secret plan.
Take the oil? No oil has been taken.
Build the wall? Even Ann Coulter believes it will never happen under Trump.
DACA must end? Make DACA permanent and snow people by saying you ended DAPA which was never even fully in effect and largely blocked by the courts.
Hire the best and brightest? Flynn under indictment, Spicer "promoted" to no longer giving briefings, Deputy CoS gone, Kushner being investigated, Reince about to be sent to Greece if he doesn't fix Trump's mistakes by July 4th, Gorka can't get a clearance, etc.

The list goes on and on. What HAS he accomplished other than waging war on the media and signing a few impotent or blocked Executive Orders? He's barely filled a 1/10 of the Executive branch positions his administration needs to effectively operate government.

All I can think of is Gorsuch, and only because McConnell handled that for him.

JayF said:

There were obvious fainting and seizures seen on video by her. Please tell me again where you can tell he has dementia by this video? I am not a huge Trump fan but I make sure I understand the facts where there are facts and Bologna where I see it. You can't definitively say he has dementia by looking at that video. Looks like someone paying attention to what he is being told to me. But if you want to make stuff up, go right ahead. I won't stop you.

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Please post a video of Hillary having a seizure. So you believe Hillary has Parkinson's? See, this was exactly my point. A couple of alt-right trolls and crazed nuts like Charles Johnson simply took videos and CLAIMED Hillary was sick, having a seizure, laughing oddly, etc. The only thing to give doubts about her health was the fainting spell, and her doctor diagnosed her with pneumonia. When I was 19 I had pneumonia so bad it almost killed me. Not really surprising someone with pneumonia would faint.

I'm as far from being a Hillary fan as can be. I certainly didn't want her to be President. But how am I making anything up when the assessment of the video I posted is just as credible as a video of Hillary laughing shrilly being a seizure?

Matt, do you think Russia meddled with the election? If so, what should we do about it?

gangstonc said:

Matt, do you think Russia meddled with the election? If so, what should we do about it?

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I think it's quite obvious the Russians meddled in the 2016 election cycle. They should be and will be held accountable. I also think the persons and agencies charged with preventing meddling should be held accountable as well. Obama, Brennan, Clapper, Comey, Lynch, Clinton, et al should bear most of the blame. Would you not agree ?

Matt said:

I think it's quite obvious the Russians meddled in the 2016 election cycle. They should be and will be held accountable. I also think the persons and agencies charged with preventing meddling should be held accountable as well. Obama, Brennan, Clapper, Comey, Lynch, Clinton, et al should bear most of the blame. Would you not agree ?

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Should we hold police chiefs accountable for theft and larson? Or fire marshals for house fires? Even when they did the best they could? (and by they I also mean the people under their commands who work around the clock to stop crime and fight fires even if they don't always succeed)

KoD said:

Should we hold police chiefs accountable for theft and larson? Or fire marshals for house fires? Even when they did the best they could? (and by they I also mean the people under their commands who work around the clock to stop crime and fight fires even if they don't always succeed)

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If they knew the crimes were going to be committed and did nothing, yes they should be held accountable. They learned very early of Russia'a meddling. Hell, even Barry himself said he told Putin to cut it out. So tell me, what did they do once they learned about Russia's shenanigans ? Nothing it appears. But why ?

KoD said:

What a bunch of bogus bologna. The media isn't perpetuating any untrue narrative in a more biased way than they did with Obama or Bush.
Trump happens to be a train wreck that you support and you'll bend the truth to reject that notion. Media bias give me a break... It isn't any different than what it has always been.

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More fake news!


http://www.philly.com/philly/news/p...-story-linking-trump-and-russia-20170624.html

KoD said:

What a bunch of bogus bologna. The media isn't perpetuating any untrue narrative in a more biased way than they did with Obama or Bush.
Trump happens to be a train wreck that you support and you'll bend the truth to reject that notion. Media bias give me a break... It isn't any different than what it has always been.

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I could do this all day long.


http://www.cnn.com/2017/06/23/polit...17editors-note0350AMStoryLink&linkId=39055396

Matt said:

If they knew the crimes were going to be committed and did nothing, yes they should be held accountable. They learned very early of Russia'a meddling. Hell, even Barry himself said he told Putin to cut it out. So tell me, what did they do once they learned about Russia's shenanigans ? Nothing it appears. But why ?

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I seem to recall quite vividly many Democrats blaming Russians for hacking and attempts to support Trump winning the election, well before election day. I also recall many Republicans saying that was bogus info and attempts to tie Trump to the big bad Russians to undermine his credibility.
Afaik hacking attempts on actual voting electronics have failed and not actually changed any tallies. So besides hacking and leaking DNC emails and other social influence games, how did the people you listed fail at preventing Russian intrusion? Their entire goal is to maintain a democratic majority, why would they do "nothing"?