318 replies to this topic

[ams30721us]

Stormlover, on 24 March 2012 - 09:12 PM, said:

You are comparing a President vowing to go after the terrorists behind 911 to a group of thugs advocating vigilate justice? Wow. This can't get much worse.

So what makes it okay for the President to advocate vigilante justice towards a person and these so called "Thugs not be able too?"

Can you get more bias on your message. You are saying its okay for a guy named George W. Bush to call for it but not a guy named whatever in Florida??? Yeaaaaaa thats America for you.

[Stormlover]

ams30721us, on 24 March 2012 - 09:17 PM, said:

So what makes it okay for the President to advocate vigilante justice towards a person and these so called "Thugs not be able too?"

Can you get more bias on your message. You are saying its okay for a guy named George W. Bush to call for it but not a guy named whatever in Florida??? Yeaaaaaa thats America for you.

The very fact that you call a President responding to the worst attack on our soil as vigilante justice is one of the most absurd things I've ever, ever seen on this or any other forum. I'm going to pray for you. Seriously.

Edited by Stormlover, 24 March 2012 - 09:31 PM.

[NathansGal]

ams30721us, on 24 March 2012 - 09:17 PM, said:

So what makes it okay for the President to advocate vigilante justice towards a person and these so called "Thugs not be able too?"

Can you get more bias on your message. You are saying its okay for a guy named George W. Bush to call for it but not a guy named whatever in Florida??? Yeaaaaaa thats America for you.

I never heard Bush say it was okay for vigilante justice....I don't consider our troops taking care of various groups associated with the bombings vigilante....I'm sure a soldier would tell you he's not a vigilante but part of a very sophisticated group that are under rules and regulations....a vigilante usually works alone under unlawful circumstances, there's no comparison....

This is the mentality that I hate, when people (like actors and organization) that don't have a "dog in the fight" get people fired up....I'm telling you this can't end in anything but ugly....

Our response to 911 has nothing to do with this....you're really losing your point for this kid saying things like that....

I'm sure people that have lost a soldier in the terrorism war feel a similar pain you have felt losing a loved one to the terrorist acts of 911

[ams30721us]

NathansGal, on 24 March 2012 - 09:26 PM, said:

I never heard Bush say it was okay for vigilante justice....I don't consider our troops taking care of various groups associated with the bombings vigilante....I'm sure a soldier would tell you he's not a vigilante but part of a very sophisticated group that are under rules and regulations....a vigilante usually works alone under unlawful circumstances, there's no comparison....

This is the mentality that I hate, when people (like actors and organization) that don't have a "dog in the fight" get people fired up....I'm telling you this can't end in anything but ugly....

Our response to 911 has nothing to do with this....you're really losing your point for this kid saying things like that....

I'm sure people that have lost a soldier in the terrorism war feel a similar pain you have felt losing a loved one to the terrorist acts of 911

I am not sure where to start with this so I will try to sum it up quickly. Bush did in fact say about Bin Laden "Wanted: Dead or Alive" so he sure was.

I lost a good friend in the war and am very proud and happy for another good friend J.R. Martinez who just won Dancing With the Stars this year and is just about 2 months away from being a father. This guy did not believe this would ever happen to him after driving over a IED. So I know what a soldier would say and I said nothing about a soldier considering himself that. Its what G.W.B. said.

I know the pain and suffering very well from 9-11 and as I said I cheered that day out of anger like every other American about that. I am saying people say those things out of anger and it happened in Florida. It is no different.

[ams30721us]

Stormlover, on 24 March 2012 - 09:26 PM, said:

The very fact that you call a President responding to the worst attack on our soil as vigilante justice is one of the most absurd things I've ever, ever seen on this or any other forum. I'm going to pray for you. Seriously.

Ridiculous response. Please read the facts. GWB did the same thing this guy in Florida did. people say stuff like this out of anger. Don't make it seem like its just an absurd thing that has been done when Americans Do it all the time.

[ams30721us]

Btw for those who did not ever see it, here is Bush speaking out of ANGER and saying he wants JUSTICE because he feels Bin Laden took away the freedoms of ours. Well last I checked Zimmerman has taken away the Freedom of Trayvon Martin.

[Stormlover]

ams30721us, on 24 March 2012 - 09:36 PM, said:

Btw for those who did not ever see it, here is Bush speaking out of ANGER and saying he wants JUSTICE because he feels Bin Laden took away the freedoms of ours. Well last I checked Zimmerman has taken away the Freedom of Trayvon Martin.

The President is not a vigilante. You need help. I give up, others can waste their time with this, it's hopeless. I suggest we all just ignore it all when it comes to this kind of junk.

Edited by Stormlover, 24 March 2012 - 09:46 PM.

[ams30721us]

Stormlover, on 24 March 2012 - 09:44 PM, said:

The President is not a vigilante. You need help. I give up, others can waste their time with this, it's hopeless. I suggest we all just ignore it all when it comes to this kind of junk.

Maybe you should because the fact is he said the same stuff out of anger as these people in florida did. They want justice and so does he. The only difference is that 9-11 every race was involved so the anger level for everyone was the same. In this case is only one race. That is the only difference and you know it. Bottom line the facts or the facts!

[Arcadia]

ams30721us, on 24 March 2012 - 09:36 PM, said:

Btw for those who did not ever see it, here is Bush speaking out of ANGER and saying he wants JUSTICE because he feels Bin Laden took away the freedoms of ours. Well last I checked Zimmerman has taken away the Freedom of Trayvon Martin.

There is a difference in the President of the United States telling the country who was attacked as a country that the master mind behind it would be captured dead or alive.  A nobody from nowhere, FL does not have the power or authority to order the capture of anyone. I see this whole thing as a tragedy and everyone responding to you does as well, but you keep taking swipes at America as if we are all guilty of this crime.  You've advocated violence, burning down the city, and even murder all day long.  I think you need to take a few steps back for the time being.

[NathansGal]

ams30721us, on 24 March 2012 - 09:31 PM, said:

I am not sure where to start with this so I will try to sum it up quickly. Bush did in fact say about Bin Laden "Wanted: Dead or Alive" so he sure was.

I lost a good friend in the war and am very proud and happy for another good friend J.R. Martinez who just won Dancing With the Stars this year and is just about 2 months away from being a father. This guy did not believe this would ever happen to him after driving over a IED. So I know what a soldier would say and I said nothing about a soldier considering himself that. Its what G.W.B. said.

I know the pain and suffering very well from 9-11 and as I said I cheered that day out of anger like every other American about that. I am saying people say those things out of anger and it happened in Florida. It is no different.

I'm sorry for your loss and I'm proud for J.R. Martinez as well, he's a good man from what I know....

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree because I just don't see the comparison....I understand the anger people feel, they have a right BUT you can be "angry and sin not"....rallying up a riot with words is so easy when you have a passionate anger involved....it's going to solve NOTHING, that is what we are all trying to say...

[ams30721us]

NathansGal, on 24 March 2012 - 10:30 PM, said:

I'm sorry for your loss and I'm proud for J.R. Martinez as well, he's a good man from what I know....

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree because I just don't see the comparison....I understand the anger people feel, they have a right BUT you can be "angry and sin not"....rallying up a riot with words is so easy when you have a passionate anger involved....it's going to solve NOTHING, that is what we are all trying to say...

Oh I agree. As I have stated, people know my opinion on even the Death Penalty. I was the first to applaud the family of the Mississippi man who was killed by a teenager filled with hate but made a dumb mistake. The family of the dead man who was ran over by the truck pleaded with the judge to NOT take the life of this kid who just did something stupid. The reason you don't see outrage from that brutal case is because the police actually moved right away and provided justice. The opposite took place in this case. All I am saying is that as long as the Sanford P.D. standbye and do nothing like they have been doing the past month the more this will continue to get out of hand. I just think we need to place blame where it is do, not the people saying the crazy stuff but the Sanford P.D. for allowing it to get this far. I think people have to understand that the anger is not only what Zimmerman did which was horrible but more so the lack of justice at all in this crime. Sanford P.D. is basically begging an incident to go down.

[ams30721us]

Arcadia, on 24 March 2012 - 10:11 PM, said:

There is a difference in the President of the United States telling the country who was attacked as a country that the master mind behind it would be captured dead or alive.  A nobody from nowhere, FL does not have the power or authority to order the capture of anyone. I see this whole thing as a tragedy and everyone responding to you does as well, but you keep taking swipes at America as if we are all guilty of this crime.  You've advocated violence, burning down the city, and even murder all day long.  I think you need to take a few steps back for the time being.

uhm no.

[BlountWolf]

How long... how long must we sing this song?

[David in SW Blount]

ams, I understand and empathize with your anger.  But, like Lori said, this shouldn't even be an issue centered around race.  We should all be outraged that a young man was killed for no apparent reason by a vigilante whacko.  This isn't similar to Bush calling for Osama bin Laden's capture/death, because Zimmerman is subject to a civilized justice system that has now been called to action (albeit one month late).  Yes, the actions of the Sanford PD are jawdropping and reprehensible to say the least.  But Zimmerman is not going to escape this now.  Our civil justice system will do its job, and the Sanford PD should (and hopefully will) face the consequences of its inaction.

Calling for violence, kidnapping, etc. just escalates the situation and risks creating a racial divide over this issue where none should exist.  Why call for action that simply reinforces negative stereotyping by racists?

Edited by David in SW Blount, 25 March 2012 - 06:21 AM.

[Ghost]

I heard a black man on a radio talk show discuss this tragic killing last week and found his perspective very interesting.  He was commenting on how his (the black community) had come together to protest this killing and had been successful bringing it to the national forefront, but he also was questioning why his community didn't feel the same outrage and coming together to protest black on black killings that he said are so prevalent and have been prevalent for over 20 yrs.  He said it was like... young black men killing other young black men is more or less tolerated because we've (the black community) have seen so much of it... but soon as a hispanic or white or other race kills a black person we become all enraged and get JJ and AS involved and act like it's the worst thing in the world.  He seemed very frustrated.

[Cyclogent]

BlountWolf, on 25 March 2012 - 01:27 AM, said:

How long... how long must we sing this song?

So a friend of mine is a history teacher and a volunteer at the Chickamauga/Chattanooga Military Park system...his great-great grandfather fought and died in the Battle of Chickamauga during the Civil War.  Twice a year (Memorial Day and Veterans Day) he honors his great-great grandfather's sacrifice by displaying the Confederate flag.  So picture a white guy driving a 4x4 pickup truck with a confederate flag and an NRA sticker on the back window...oh the looks he gets when driving around...he has been called a gun-toting backwoods redneck racist hick on more than one occasion...all on the basis of appearances.  Is that fair?  Or Hispanics who are suspected of being illegal immigrants based on appearances?  Or those from the Middle East who are suspected of being terrorists, just because they dress a certain way?  "Can't we all just...get along?"

[Cyclogent]

CNN: Iraqi immigrant beaten to death in California


"During the initial stages of this investigation, a threatening note was discovered very close to where the victim was found," Lt. Mark Coit of the El Cajon police said.

Authorities would not specify what the note said. But Alawadi's daughter said it threatened the family to go back to Iraq and called them "terrorists."

Police said a similar note was left outside the family home earlier in the month, but the family did not report it.

"A week ago they left a letter saying, 'This is our country, not yours, you terrorists,'" the daughter, Fatima Al Himidi told CNN affiliate KGTV. "So my mom ignored that, thinking (it was) kids playing around, pranking. And so the day they hurt her, they left it again and it said the same thing."

Edited by Cyclogent, 25 March 2012 - 11:05 AM.

[Stormlover]

Interesting how first perceptions are made, and it's not just about color.

[RollTide18]

Stormlover, on 25 March 2012 - 05:07 PM, said:

Interesting how first perceptions are made, and it's not just about color.

Yea, still doesn't take away what happened.

[Stormlover]

RollTide18, on 25 March 2012 - 05:43 PM, said:

Yea, still doesn't take away what happened.

I didn't say it did.

[RollTide18]

Stormlover, on 25 March 2012 - 06:15 PM, said:

I didn't say it did.

I know, i'm just saying, people need to stop beating around the bush and take it for what it really is. A 17 year old got murdered for no apparent reason and thats it. If we got in a car accident, we got in a car accident.

[NathansGal]

David in SW Blount, on 25 March 2012 - 06:21 AM, said:

ams, I understand and empathize with your anger.  But, like Lori said, this shouldn't even be an issue centered around race.  We should all be outraged that a young man was killed for no apparent reason by a vigilante whacko.  This isn't similar to Bush calling for Osama bin Laden's capture/death, because Zimmerman is subject to a civilized justice system that has now been called to action (albeit one month late).  Yes, the actions of the Sanford PD are jawdropping and reprehensible to say the least.  But Zimmerman is not going to escape this now.  Our civil justice system will do its job, and the Sanford PD should (and hopefully will) face the consequences of its inaction.

Calling for violence, kidnapping, etc. just escalates the situation and risks creating a racial divide over this issue where none should exist.  Why call for action that simply reinforces negative stereotyping by racists?

Exactly!!!

Ghost, on 25 March 2012 - 07:37 AM, said:

I heard a black man on a radio talk show discuss this tragic killing last week and found his perspective very interesting.  He was commenting on how his (the black community) had come together to protest this killing and had been successful bringing it to the national forefront, but he also was questioning why his community didn't feel the same outrage and coming together to protest black on black killings that he said are so prevalent and have been prevalent for over 20 yrs.  He said it was like... young black men killing other young black men is more or less tolerated because we've (the black community) have seen so much of it... but soon as a hispanic or white or other race kills a black person we become all enraged and get JJ and AS involved and act like it's the worst thing in the world.  He seemed very frustrated.

That's another point that needed to be stated!!!

[ams30721us]

Stormlover, on 25 March 2012 - 05:07 PM, said:

Interesting how first perceptions are made, and it's not just about color.

You do  realize that is not a real picture of Trayvon right?? Just curious since you seemed to try and post that as a reason to paint Trayvon as some thug. The funny thing is even if that had been a real picture of him that is still wouldn't change the facts of the case that this kid was innocent, racially profiled, and murdered in the streets with no justice. Was that picture supposed to take away from the fact that this was an A and B student who was not a thug? That picture would still not explain why Zimmerman was allowed to chase down a kid with skittles and an ice tea confront and murder the kid and get to go home with the murder weapon with no tests or forensics done just at his word. Was that pic really supposed to explain why a 17-year old kid was murdered in the streets in his gated-community and police not even canvas the area or use his cell phone to notify the parents that they no longer have a 17 year old son coming home?  Wait maybe it was supposed to defend how Zimmerman lied to the police the night he was not arrested. He told them he did not chase Trayvon and that he lost sight of him. Oh wait guess that is why the family had to SUE to get the 9-1-1 tapes because we clearly see that was a bold face lie. Was that supposed to change the perception that it is okay for the Sanford PD covered this case up and the public outrage from the community is that this has 1960 written all over it in 2012. I think people forget their is anger and violent threats in any case, heck look at Casey Anthony. The difference with that is the simple fact she was at least arrested and had a trial and people still threaten to kill her. It really is nothing new when people feel they do not receive justice. In this case it is not a feeling it is a fact. Had it not been for the public outraged from the black community this case would have been closed and zimmerman would away with this with nothing. I just think you posting something that shows a lot about people in this country still. Thanks for that reminder.

[Stormlover]

more to the story:
http://articles.orla...-black-teenager

[ams30721us]

Stormlover, on 26 March 2012 - 10:57 AM, said:

more to the story:
http://articles.orla...-black-teenager

Yeo that proves my point! So lets see the police took Zimmermans story and ran with it even though he had lied to them about chasing the kid. Again as the sponsors of the Stand Your Ground Law has said, The law does not give you the right to chase down a innocent person with a deadly weapon and start a conflict with them. Why this man has not been arrested yet is beyond belief. As Jeb Bush says....That is not self defense...

[NathansGal]

Quote

Zimmerman has gone into hiding. A fringe group, the New Black Panthers, have offered a $10,000 reward for his capture.

Police have been reluctant to provided details about all their evidence, but this is what they've disclosed to the Sentinel:

Zimmerman was on his way to the grocery store when he spotted Trayvon walking through his gated community.

Trayvon was visiting his father's fiancée, who lived there. He had been suspended from school in Miami after being found with an empty marijuana baggie. Miami schools have a zero-tolerance policy for drug possession.

Zimmerman called police and reported a suspicious person, describing Trayvon as black, acting strangely and perhaps on drugs.

Zimmerman got out of his SUV to follow Trayvon on foot. When a dispatch employee asked Zimmerman if he was following the 17-year-old, Zimmerman said yes. The dispatcher told Zimmerman he did not need to do that.

There is about a one-minute gap during which police say they're not sure what happened.

Zimmerman told them he lost sight of Trayvon and was walking back to his SUV when Trayvon approached him from the left rear, and they exchanged words.

Trayvon asked Zimmerman if he had a problem. Zimmerman said no and reached for his cell phone, he told police.

Trayvon then said, "Well, you do now" or something similar and punched Zimmerman in the nose.

Zimmerman fell to the ground and Trayvon got on top of him and began slamming his head into the sidewalk, he told police.

Zimmerman began yelling for help.

Several witnesses heard those cries, and there's been a dispute about from whom they came: Zimmerman or Trayvon.

Lawyers for Trayvon's family say it was Trayvon, but police say their evidence indicates it was Zimmerman.

One witnesses, who has since talked to local television news reporters, told police he saw Zimmerman on the ground with Trayvon on top, pounding him and was unequivocal that it was Zimmerman who was crying for help.

Zimmerman then shot Trayvon once in the chest from very close range, according to authorities.

When police arrived less than two minutes later, Zimmerman was bleeding from the nose, had a swollen lip and had bloody lacerations to the back of his head.

Paramedics gave him first aid, but he said no to going to the hospital. He got medical care the next day.

The Department of Justice last week opened a civil rights investigation into what happened, and Gov. Rick Scott appointed a special prosecutor.

It's not clear whether the special prosecutor, Angela Corey, the state attorney for Duval, Clay and Nassau counties, will have Zimmerman arrested, announce that there's not enough evidence to file a manslaughter charge or present evidence to a grand jury.

This would explain a few things concerning why SOME things were handled by Zimmerman and the police....I'm assuming The Orlando Sentinel is a worthy source??

I'm still skeptical of this beating Zimmerman supposedly took....the guy outweighed the kid by several pounds and shooting him at close range could have happened if Zimmerman had chased Trayvon down....

Can I have a link to the ALL the 911 calls?

I can't see this kid being about to "pound" Zimmermans head into the pavement, it sounds like a cover story......

[ams30721us]

NathansGal, on 26 March 2012 - 11:30 AM, said:

This would explain a few things concerning why SOME things were handled by Zimmerman and the police....I'm assuming The Orlando Sentinel is a worthy source??

I'm still skeptical of this beating Zimmerman supposedly took....the guy outweighed the kid by several pounds and shooting him at close range could have happened if Zimmerman had chased Trayvon down....

Can I have a link to the ALL the 911 calls?

I can't see this kid being about to "pound" Zimmermans head into the pavement, it sounds like a cover story......

The problem is Zimmerman obviously lied to police about chasing this innocent kid down. The 9-1-1 tape from Zimmerman is proof of that. You are correct though about the fact that his story is fishy at best. He outweighed Trayvon by double. Are you serious he pinned you down?? That is just ridiculous.

[Stormlover]

NathansGal, on 26 March 2012 - 11:30 AM, said:

This would explain a few things concerning why SOME things were handled by Zimmerman and the police....I'm assuming The Orlando Sentinel is a worthy source??

I'm still skeptical of this beating Zimmerman supposedly took....the guy outweighed the kid by several pounds and shooting him at close range could have happened if Zimmerman had chased Trayvon down....

Can I have a link to the ALL the 911 calls?

I can't see this kid being about to "pound" Zimmermans head into the pavement, it sounds like a cover story......

Lori, if you punch someone in the nose and knock them to the ground and jump on then...of course you can pound on their head or shove it into the ground. And the Orlando Sentinel is the primary newspaper of the Orlando, Florida region. It was founded in 1876. And I have heard the 911 tape with Zimmerman being the one screaming for help.

Edited by Stormlover, 26 March 2012 - 11:40 AM.

[ams30721us]

Stormlover, on 26 March 2012 - 11:39 AM, said:

Lori, if you punch someone in the nose and knock them to the ground and jump on then...of course you can pound on their head or shove it into the ground. And the Orlando Sentinel is the primary newspaper of the Orlando, Florida region. It was founded in 1876. And I have heard the 911 tape with Zimmerman being the one screaming for help.

Hahaha What B.S. You still have not explained to me why this kid would want to pound this guys head in to the ground? Oh wait but you want to ignore a guy chasing down a kid at night with a deadly weapon with no cause and starting a conflict with this kid but you are so quick to defend Zimmerman...Wow

[RollTide18]

You really think Zimmerman would be the one screaming for help? What complete and utter B.S.