197 replies to this topic

[Matt]

BlountWolf, on 24 February 2012 - 12:56 PM, said:

I feel certain your rat sensing ability is above that of the consensus of 16 U.S. intelligence agencies.

Are these the same intelligence agencies you hammered when WMD's were not found in Iraq ?

[Stormlover]

BlountWolf, on 24 February 2012 - 09:56 AM, said:

U.S. does not believe Iran is trying to build nuclear bomb

Serious deja vu.

Yeah, they bar inspectors, and continue to go against a number of UN resolutions just because they DON'T want a bomb. Who do you think you are kidding? And their threats to Israel are made up in your eyes I'm sure too, huh. Wow.

[3340skywatcher]

Stormlover, on 04 March 2012 - 09:14 PM, said:

Yeah, they bar inspectors, and continue to go against a number of UN resolutions just because they DON'T want a bomb. Who do you think you are kidding? And their threats to Israel are made up in your eyes I'm sure too, huh. Wow.

Yeah the key word in all this is that one word "believe" as long as that word is in the conversation there is room for doubt if there is even a 1% chance of them getting a bomb it's too much. If we can ever become 100% sure   Which would mean Iran turning over a new leaf    Until then....... Iran saying there nuclear program is peacful is laughable.

[3340skywatcher]

Blizzard1, on 20 February 2012 - 03:05 PM, said:

Yep! I hope Netanyahu has his middle finger ready to strike out unilaterally as well during that meeting!  

I believe thats exactly what happened   
Netanyahu says "Israel will be the "master of its fate."

[Ghost]

Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu seemed ready to have a go at Iran tonight.  He also seems to be getting real chummy with Obama...  

[Stormlover]

I have no doubt they have decided they have no choice, unless something drastic changes
http://www.algemeine...o-strike-iran/#

[TimHSV]

Stormlover, on 05 March 2012 - 11:09 PM, said:

I have no doubt they have decided they have no choice, unless something drastic changes
http://www.algemeine...o-strike-iran/#

I agree SL. After listening to his speech tonight, he's already made the decision IMO. I wish we still had American leaders in D.C that had balls to say what mean and mean what they say". He sounded quite Chruchhillian without a doubt.I would humbly make a suggestion that everyone pray for Israel and America.I think we're all going to need some deep faith and resolve with what may be coming.

[3340skywatcher]

TimHSV, on 05 March 2012 - 11:22 PM, said:

I agree SL. After listening to his speech tonight, he's already made the decision IMO. I wish we still had American leaders in D.C that had balls to say what mean and mean what they say". He sounded quite Chruchhillian without a doubt.I would humbly make a suggestion that everyone pray for Israel and America.I think we're all going to need some deep faith and resolve with what may be coming.

As we have seen he may not have Obama's support but he has our congress' support     and after all congress reserves the right to declare war not the president

[Ghost]

If Israel strikes... they better be ready for the retaliation and the possible consequences.  It won't be those crummy Scuds that will be shot back their way this time like it was 20 yrs ago.

[3340skywatcher]

For those that missed it Netanyahu AIPAC speech am i the only one that finds myself wishing we had a leader with this much fire and integrity???

[BlountWolf]

Ghost, on 05 March 2012 - 11:52 PM, said:

If Israel strikes... they better be ready for the retaliation and the possible consequences.  It won't be those crummy Scuds that will be shot back their way this time like it was 20 yrs ago.

These people wishing for war in this case simply must not understand the ramifications of their wishes. Iran is not Iraq.

[Stormlover]

3340skywatcher, on 05 March 2012 - 11:56 PM, said:

For those that missed it Netanyahu AIPAC speech am i the only one that finds myself wishing we had a leader with this much fire and integrity???

Amen. I'd love for him to be the President of the U.S. Makes Obama look tiny in comparison.

[Stormlover]

BlountWolf, on 06 March 2012 - 10:20 AM, said:

These people wishing for war in this case simply must not understand the ramifications of their wishes. Iran is not Iraq.

That's very naive. NO ONE is wishing for war, certainly not Israel, and not their supporters in the U.S. Maybe Iran, if you understand how they believe, and they want to cause world chaos to fulfill the prophesy as they believe.
There is a big difference in wanting to go to war and having to to protect your country against a threat that has continually said that they plan to destroy you, and now they are about to get nukes.

Edited by Stormlover, 06 March 2012 - 12:18 PM.

[3340skywatcher]

Stormlover, on 06 March 2012 - 12:15 PM, said:

Amen. I'd love for him to be the President of the U.S. Makes Obama look tiny in comparison.

Exactly The big thing I took from his speech last night was he said he will FIGHT to keep Israels democratic process and freedoms. We need a leader in our country that will stand for the same. Our current president is out to destroy those principles!

Edited by 3340skywatcher, 06 March 2012 - 12:25 PM.

[3340skywatcher]

I know we have heard this song and dance before....... but
Iran to grant U.N. inspectors into the Parching military institute where they were previously banned

Here's the catch However, it would require an agreement between the two sides on a guidelines for the inspection, ISNA reported

[BlountWolf]

Stormlover, on 06 March 2012 - 12:17 PM, said:

That's very naive. NO ONE is wishing for war, certainly not Israel, and not their supporters in the U.S. Maybe Iran, if you understand how they believe, and they want to cause world chaos to fulfill the prophesy as they believe.
There is a big difference in wanting to go to war and having to to protect your country against a threat that has continually said that they plan to destroy you, and now they are about to get nukes.

That has almost nothing to do with what I said.

[brax]

Ghost, on 05 March 2012 - 11:52 PM, said:

If Israel strikes... they better be ready for the retaliation and the possible consequences.  It won't be those crummy Scuds that will be shot back their way this time like it was 20 yrs ago.

My fear is that if war, with any set of combatants, breaks out in Iran there will be many more Americans affected than we have come to expect from past wars.

Iran's leaders have no qualms about using terrorist tactics to retaliate, and ultimately they'll blame us for their hardship.

I could imagine everything from dirty bombs to chemical weapons attacks happening in the US if a full blown war broke out in Iran.

[NorthGaWeather]

If I'm Israel, the biggest worry I'd have would be Hezbollah.  Iran's only response would be arming a Sha-hab 3 with a chemical warhead and hoping it makes it to Tel-Aviv.  Or supplying Hezbollah with chemical weapons.  Iran loves to let other people do their dirty work.

[BlountWolf]

brax, on 06 March 2012 - 02:57 PM, said:

My fear is that if war, with any set of combatants, breaks out in Iran there will be many more Americans affected than we have come to expect from past wars.

Iran's leaders have no qualms about using terrorist tactics to retaliate, and ultimately they'll blame us for their hardship.

I could imagine everything from dirty bombs to chemical weapons attacks happening in the US if a full blown war broke out in Iran.

Like you, I worry about asymmetrical warfare tactics like terrorism. But that's not nearly all that could seriously affect us if Iran pulls out the stops.

Think about the Saudi oil infrastructure. Yes, Iranian missiles have enough range. Think about our troops next door in Afghanistan. Iranians know how to make (and supply) the EFP bombs that can penetrate our armored vehicles.

Iran has so much more capability militarily than Iraq did as well - the mobile peek and fire launchers and bunker network they have along the strait with chinese made sunburns in them scare the crap out of me for our fleet, and should for anybody that knows anything about missile tech. We used to park our fleet in the straits of Taiwan as a warning to the chinese about Taiwan - we don't do that any more, and sunburn anti-ship missiles are the reason.

It's going to be a damn mess if we go to war - and they won't even have to hit us here to cause us a lot of pain. Imagine they hit the Saudi oil ports, and we end up with $10/gallon gas and not enough of even that to go around. No need to close the strait - just send a couple of missiles to the ports that load the ships. A very real possibility - within easy range, with no real countermeasures. That happens, our society grinds to a halt, without a shot fired on US soil.

Will we win? Without a doubt - we'll bomb them flat. But the cost is going to be high.

Edited by BlountWolf, 06 March 2012 - 03:17 PM.

[brax]

BlountWolf, on 06 March 2012 - 03:13 PM, said:

It's going to be a damn mess if we go to war - and they won't even have to hit us here to cause us a lot of pain. Imagine they hit the Saudi oil ports, and we end up with $10/gallon gas and not enough of even that to go around. A very real possibility. That happens, our society grinds to a halt, without a shot fired on US soil.

If they wanted to destroy the American lifestyle, that would be the way. Bet we'd see a lot of Diesel and Natural Gas powered vehicles pop up very quickly. Not only would gas spike, but so would cooking oil, (which can be used as a replacement for Diesel) corn, and all other ethanol related products... It's scary to imagine the repercussions.

[BlountWolf]

NorthGaWeather, on 06 March 2012 - 03:13 PM, said:

If I'm Israel, the biggest worry I'd have would be Hezbollah.  Iran's only response would be arming a Sha-hab 3 with a chemical warhead and hoping it makes it to Tel-Aviv.  Or supplying Hezbollah with chemical weapons.  Iran loves to let other people do their dirty work.

Supplying Hezbollah would be the smarter route for them - the Arrow system is pretty good at taking out Sha-habs, apparently.

[3340skywatcher]

brax, on 06 March 2012 - 02:57 PM, said:

My fear is that if war, with any set of combatants, breaks out in Iran there will be many more Americans affected than we have come to expect from past wars.

Iran's leaders have no qualms about using terrorist tactics to retaliate, and ultimately they'll blame us for their hardship.

I could imagine everything from dirty bombs to chemical weapons attacks happening in the US if a full blown war broke out in Iran.

Which is why they should have been dealt with years ago! President Bush said "We will not distinguish between the terrorist organizations and those who harbor them." Iran is far different from North Korea which uses nukes as a bargaining chip. If Iran gets  nukes you can take it to the bank that they will use them or put them into terrorist hand so they can do the deed. As I have stated before there are costs on both sides. The Iranian government is no different from Osama Bin Laden and other top terror leaders.

[BlountWolf]

3340skywatcher, on 06 March 2012 - 03:22 PM, said:

Which is why they should have been dealt with years ago!

OK, how?

[3340skywatcher]

BlountWolf, on 06 March 2012 - 03:13 PM, said:

Will we win? Without a doubt - we'll bomb them flat.   But the cost is going to be high.

The cost of them having a nuke would be much higher i fear them putting nukes into terrorist hands to use anywhere. If terrorist set off a nuke in this country 9/11 will be as if it had never even happened.

[Ghost]

3340skywatcher, on 06 March 2012 - 03:27 PM, said:

The cost of them having a nuke would be much higher i fear them putting nukes into terrorist hands to use anywhere. If terrorist set off a nuke in this country 9/11 will be as if it had never even happened.

Pakistan is a muslim country.  Pakistan is full of Islamic terrorists.  Pakistan ALREADY has nuclear bombs.  Using your logic... shouldn't we bomb them to oblivion too before one of their terrorists sets off a nuke in this country?

[BlountWolf]

3340skywatcher, on 06 March 2012 - 03:27 PM, said:

The cost of them having a nuke would be much higher i fear them putting nukes into terrorist hands to use anywhere. If terrorist set off a nuke in this country 9/11 will be as if it had never even happened.

Well, they are a long way from having anything close to the tech needed to supply such a weapon to a terrorist group that would have any chance of getting here undetected. This isn't a spy novel - the technology to create a suitcase nuke just isn't a real threat - nobody has that capability at this point other than us - if we even have it.

http://www.strategyp...m/20081024.aspx

Best they could hope for is a dirty bomb - scarier than conventional, but that's it's real yield - panic not destruction.

Edited by BlountWolf, 06 March 2012 - 03:34 PM.

[3340skywatcher]

All anyone is worried about is the costs of striking Iran before they go nuclear. I agree those costs are something to be fearful of. Why are we not more fearful of Iran going nuclear. Both sides of this issue come with grave costs and consequences. I would love nothing more then for Iran to have a change of heart and totally comply, I pray for diplomacy to work daily, but so far Iran agreeing to "talk" has been nothing but games from them. As much as we are concerned about the costs of attacking Iran we need to be concerned with what the world would be like with a nuclear Iran.

[BlountWolf]

3340skywatcher, on 06 March 2012 - 03:41 PM, said:

All anyone is worried about is the costs of striking Iran before they go nuclear. I agree those costs are something to be fearful of. Why are we not more fearful of Iran going nuclear. Both sides of this issue come with grave costs and consequences. I would love nothing more then for Iran to have a change of heart and totally comply, I pray for diplomacy to work daily, but so far Iran agreeing to "talk" has been nothing but games from them. As much as we are concerned about the costs of attacking Iran we need to be concerned with what the world would be like with a nuclear Iran.

It would be like any other country having them, unless they used them. If they did, we'd turn them and a lot of their sand to glass. They know this. There's a lot of folks who think they are crazy enough to use one, I'm not so sure - crazy theocrats yes, suicidally crazy no, IMO. Religious leaders like this tend to talk a lot of apocalyptic nonsense but mostly protect their own skins.

[NorthGaWeather]

BlountWolf, on 06 March 2012 - 03:21 PM, said:

Supplying Hezbollah would be the smarter route for them - the Arrow system is pretty good at taking out Sha-habs, apparently.

Yeah, the Arrow 2/Super Green Pine setup has proved very successful in test runs.  The Arrow 3 missile should be even better.

[NorthGaWeather]

BlountWolf, on 06 March 2012 - 03:49 PM, said:

It would be like any other country having them, unless they used them. If they did, we'd turn them and a lot of their sand to glass. They know this. There's a lot of folks who think they are crazy enough to use one, I'm not so sure - crazy theocrats yes, suicidally crazy no, IMO. Religious leaders like this tend to talk a lot of apocalyptic nonsense but mostly protect their own skins.

+1