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#61 Blizzard1

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Posted 23 June 2011 - 03:35 PM

Charles, Obama in essence released 1.5 days worth of oil. If he was TRULY interested in a long term fix, how about allowing domestic drilling, in particular the Gulf? Ya know I'd hate for Obama to actually abide by a Federal Court Order by doing that.

http://www.bloomberg...udge-rules.html

How about allowing more refineries Charles? Don't you think that would be a good idea in general to ween us off foreign oil dependency?

As for Reagan and Clinton, Reagan doesn't compare to Obama at all except they have both served as President. Clinton, while a consummate politician, was still light years ahead of Obama by comparison regarding how he handled situations like this. He actually tried to go along with a true solution even when it meant taking some heat from his own party (welfare reform).
"Earlier today I ordered America's armed forces to strike military and security targets in Iraq. They are joined by British forces," Clinton said.

"Their mission is to attack Iraq's nuclear, chemical and biological weapons programs and its military capacity to threaten its neighbors," said Clinton. - Bill Clinton/cnn.com-December16,1998

#62 ARCC

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Posted 23 June 2011 - 04:11 PM

View PostCharles Loring, on 23 June 2011 - 01:08 PM, said:

Nice deflection. You know as well as I do that if he, indeed, wanted to make this a political maneuver...would he not have done it when the gas was approaching $4.00? Not now when it is on the decrease?

Too, why do it now...in mid-summer 2011? Wait and do it next summer...2012. Wouldn't that make more sense for his "re-election" bid?


Are you really that delusional? He's a politician, all they do is political moves. He's doing it because the economy is stagnant and Bernanke is clueless. Why do it now? Because at the rate the economy is getting better, it would take years to look decent again. Drop gases prices, you stimulate the economy, big shocker. He needs the economy to show more signs of coming back to help his re-election campaign. Even if GWB did this, it would still be a political move.

What? Did you think he did this so he could get the warm fuzzies about helping me and you? If you did, you need help.
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#63 Ghost

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Posted 23 June 2011 - 04:13 PM

It's interesting to see how people's biases totally kill any hope of objectivity in a debate...
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#64 Ghost

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Posted 23 June 2011 - 04:44 PM

View PostBlizzard1, on 23 June 2011 - 03:35 PM, said:

How about allowing more refineries Charles? Don't you think that would be a good idea in general to ween us off foreign oil dependency

It's just not a Dem thing... Bush and the Repubs could have addressed this very thing circa 2001-2006... and didn't.

Weening us off foreign oil dependency isn't just an oil thing.  Fostering the emergence of alternative transportation fuels... technologies... and standards could play a significant role in achieving this too.
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#65 Blizzard1

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Posted 23 June 2011 - 05:00 PM

View PostGhost, on 23 June 2011 - 04:44 PM, said:

It's just not a Dem thing... Bush and the Repubs could have addressed this very thing circa 2001-2006... and didn't.

Weening us off foreign oil dependency isn't just an oil thing.  Fostering the emergence of alternative transportation fuels... technologies... and standards could play a significant role in achieving this too.

Ghost I am not laying this all at the feet of Obama BUT he is the one in the spotlight, he is the one behind the wheel per se and he isn't just sitting still, he's driving us in the wrong direction when it comes to domestic oil production. Yes Bush and Co lacked what it took to do a lot of things he was voted into office to do, such as work on our foreign oil dependency too. Bush could have also done things such as privatized a portion of Soc Security but balked on that as well when the first round of catterwalling took place. Between the lack of drive to accomplish the afore mentioned items and the out of control spending, sure...it upset us conservatives. I am not giving a pass to Bush on the oil subject but comparing how Bush to Obama approach(ed) issues on a political motivation level is like comparing apples to oranges.

Edited by Blizzard1, 23 June 2011 - 05:03 PM.

"Earlier today I ordered America's armed forces to strike military and security targets in Iraq. They are joined by British forces," Clinton said.

"Their mission is to attack Iraq's nuclear, chemical and biological weapons programs and its military capacity to threaten its neighbors," said Clinton. - Bill Clinton/cnn.com-December16,1998

#66 Charles Loring

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Posted 23 June 2011 - 05:10 PM

View PostARCC, on 23 June 2011 - 04:11 PM, said:

What? Did you think he did this so he could get the warm fuzzies about helping me and you? If you did, you need help.

Wake up on the wrong side of the bed today ARCC?

So all politicans are evil in your mind? Or just the ones with (D) beside their name? :-k

With your type of mindset no matter what ANY politician did...you would just shack it off as them trying to "one up one another". That has to be a sad feeling. Yes, I do believe most politicans pass measures to help their constituents, call me crazy but I feel most people have the same view as me too.

Edited by Charles Loring, 23 June 2011 - 05:13 PM.

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#67 Charles Loring

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Posted 23 June 2011 - 05:15 PM

View PostBlizzard1, on 23 June 2011 - 03:35 PM, said:

As for Reagan and Clinton, Reagan doesn't compare to Obama at all except they have both served as President. Clinton, while a consummate politician, was still light years ahead of Obama by comparison regarding how he handled situations like this. He actually tried to go along with a true solution even when it meant taking some heat from his own party (welfare reform).

That is not what I asked.

What I asked was, "So, with that said, did everything Clinton and Reagan do, at this point of their presidencies, count as "political maneuvers" too?"

You said because his poll numbers were low, that gives him a great motive to do all this stuff. Well since Reagan and Clinton were in the exact same positions at this exact same time...I am sure the reason they passed anything was for re-election too, right?
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#68 TimHSV

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Posted 23 June 2011 - 06:17 PM

View PostCharles Loring, on 23 June 2011 - 10:52 AM, said:

^^^ It's all political NotoriousD! (At least that is what I keep hearing people from the right say)

Honestly, how could this be seen as a political maneuver? Who is he trying to impress? The far right wing?

‎60 million barrels equals about 18 hours of global production – hours, not days or weeks. This is nothing more than "political panic" and just reverifies Obama hasn't a clue as how to manage anything, much less an economy that he has help to destroy..(deliberately?)...  really, my good friend, wake up. Obama thinks we're all idiots seemly

Edited by TimHSV, 23 June 2011 - 06:22 PM.

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#69 Blizzard1

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Posted 23 June 2011 - 06:23 PM

View PostCharles Loring, on 23 June 2011 - 05:15 PM, said:

That is not what I asked.

What I asked was, "So, with that said, did everything Clinton and Reagan do, at this point of their presidencies, count as "political maneuvers" too?"

You said because his poll numbers were low, that gives him a great motive to do all this stuff. Well since Reagan and Clinton were in the exact same positions at this exact same time...I am sure the reason they passed anything was for re-election too, right?

See we're missing eachother here. My main point was that Obama makes politically motivated moves consistently. I think I made one mention of poll numbers but that was a secondary point. Politicians often make political decisions without regard to polls. The two are often congruent but not always. Additionally, Obama has made politically driven steps when his poll numbers were sky high. So while there may be some correlation, it's not what I am focusing on. You are too young to remember it but Reagan had a true sincerity about him. One could generally rest assured that he made his moves based on principle not politics. Not always, but generally. Obama is the polar opposite of that, not even bringing polls into the mix so to answer your question. No, I don't think Reagan just passed legislation for political expediency and I even give Clinton credit for not always going the route of political expediency either.
"Earlier today I ordered America's armed forces to strike military and security targets in Iraq. They are joined by British forces," Clinton said.

"Their mission is to attack Iraq's nuclear, chemical and biological weapons programs and its military capacity to threaten its neighbors," said Clinton. - Bill Clinton/cnn.com-December16,1998

#70 xtreme weather

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Posted 23 June 2011 - 07:17 PM

Our supply falling? Hmmmm
Posted Image

To replace "sweet brent crude" with what is in reserve is laughable it is the heaviest contaminated oil you can have....

So question asked "why now"? WTI had already fallen 15-16%!!! and Brent (the best/in high demand) had fallen about 12%. Where was Obama/GOV when the ppb was above $110 and $4.00's nat average??

Because $2-3 TRILLIONNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN dollars and the economy is still faltering/jobless claims rising/unemployment rising so the FED's have to manipulate the market it is all they have left. Guess the ink is drying up in the printin presses ;)

#71 Charles Loring

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Posted 23 June 2011 - 07:50 PM

View PostBlizzard1, on 23 June 2011 - 06:23 PM, said:

See we're missing eachother here. My main point was that Obama makes politically motivated moves consistently. I think I made one mention of poll numbers but that was a secondary point. Politicians often make political decisions without regard to polls. The two are often congruent but not always. Additionally, Obama has made politically driven steps when his poll numbers were sky high. So while there may be some correlation, it's not what I am focusing on. You are too young to remember it but Reagan had a true sincerity about him. One could generally rest assured that he made his moves based on principle not politics. Not always, but generally. Obama is the polar opposite of that, not even bringing polls into the mix so to answer your question. No, I don't think Reagan just passed legislation for political expediency and I even give Clinton credit for not always going the route of political expediency either.

One word to describe your post...partisan. It screams it.

Edited by Charles Loring, 23 June 2011 - 07:50 PM.

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#72 Charles Loring

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Posted 23 June 2011 - 07:53 PM

View PostTimHSV, on 23 June 2011 - 06:17 PM, said:

This is nothing more than "political panic" and just reverifies Obama hasn't a clue as how to manage anything, much less an economy that he has help to destroy..(deliberately?)...

I love the comedic aspect to your posts Tim. I use to take them seriously, I did...but they sure brighten my day! Thanks Tim!
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#73 Pastor of Muppets

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Posted 23 June 2011 - 08:30 PM

View PostCharles Loring, on 23 June 2011 - 10:52 AM, said:

^^^ It's all political NotoriousD! (At least that is what I keep hearing people from the right say)

Honestly, how could this be seen as a political maneuver? Who is he trying to impress? The far right wing?

Were you picking a fight?  There was nothing political in here at least until your reply.

#74 Charles Loring

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Posted 23 June 2011 - 08:39 PM

View PostPastor of Muppets, on 23 June 2011 - 08:30 PM, said:

Were you picking a fight?  There was nothing political in here at least until your reply.

I knew it was going to come once NotoriousD posted that link about President Obama allowing some of our oil reserves to be opened for use. And you can't tell me it wasn't going to happen either, we both know better than that.
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#75 ARCC

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Posted 23 June 2011 - 08:47 PM

View PostCharles Loring, on 23 June 2011 - 05:10 PM, said:

Wake up on the wrong side of the bed today ARCC?

So all politicans are evil in your mind? Or just the ones with (D) beside their name? :-k

With your type of mindset no matter what ANY politician did...you would just shack it off as them trying to "one up one another". That has to be a sad feeling. Yes, I do believe most politicans pass measures to help their constituents, call me crazy but I feel most people have the same view as me too.


No, I am just sick and tired of people blaming each side with the problems, when they themselves are so unaware that the very same politicians they are fighting for doesn't give a flying poop about them. BTW, yes it is a sad feeling. Knowing that either party would throw me under the bus to insure that they get re-elected, or get their agenda passed.

No you are not crazy. Most people do have the same view as you. All you have to do to confirm that is look at the state of the country. We are in the back seat of the car, watching two idiots fight over the steering wheel. However, neither one will take the foot off the gas and we just passed the "cliff ahead sign".

So yes, I am mad. I am mad that the country has no hope and there is nothing I can do about it.
"I want to be that man,
who loves the Lord with all his heart just like his word commands,
who takes a stand, and leads his family as he holds the Father's hand,
I want to be that man!"

I Want to be that Man
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What You Need to Know:
The Cross paved the way for Freedom!
Calvary purchased our Freedom!


And so, I thought, the anvil of God's Word,
For ages, skeptics blows have beat upon;
Yet, though the noise of falling blows was heard,
The anvil is unharmed - the hammers gone.


John Clifford

#76 xtreme weather

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Posted 23 June 2011 - 08:51 PM

View PostCharles Loring, on 23 June 2011 - 08:39 PM, said:

I knew it was going to come once NotoriousD posted that link about President Obama allowing some of our oil reserves to be opened for use. And you can't tell me it wasn't going to happen either, we both know better than that.

Really??? Took nearly 2hrs for first reply to the post and that was you lolzzzzz and data was released at 8a central/9a eastern.

Anyway what up with this?

Supply unchanged for the daily for a year now...

05/06/11 26.3
05/13/11 26.2
05/20/11 25.9
05/27/11 25.7
06/03/11 25.0
06/10/11 24.5
06/17/11 24.2

06/18/10 24.1 hmmm why did we release reserves now??

Days of Supply calculated as: U.S. Crude Oil Stocks / Four-Week Average U.S. Crude Oil Refinery Inputs

#77 Pastor of Muppets

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Posted 23 June 2011 - 09:11 PM

View PostCharles Loring, on 23 June 2011 - 08:39 PM, said:

I knew it was going to come once NotoriousD posted that link about President Obama allowing some of our oil reserves to be opened for use. And you can't tell me it wasn't going to happen either, we both know better than that.

Maybe it would have, maybe it wouldn't have.  I won't say for sure either way.

But now you've opened that can of worms, I do find humor in you saying people on the right will make it political after your buddies couldn't shut up about Bush and Big Oil for 8 years.  Don't you realize EVERYTHING is political nowadays?  It is a product of 24/7 news cycles and talk radio(right and left)........it is constant posturing from both sides now.

#78 Charles Loring

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Posted 23 June 2011 - 09:27 PM

View PostPastor of Muppets, on 23 June 2011 - 09:11 PM, said:

Maybe it would have, maybe it wouldn't have.  I won't say for sure either way.

But now you've opened that can of worms, I do find humor in you saying people on the right will make it political after your buddies couldn't shut up about Bush and Big Oil for 8 years.  Don't you realize EVERYTHING is political nowadays?  It is a product of 24/7 news cycles and talk radio(right and left)........it is constant posturing from both sides now.

I am reading Decision Points by GWB. Why? Because I want to see his thought process on some of the decisions he made. From reading his book there is not a doubt in my mind he loved this country and tried to do what he thought was best for us. I think he, like past presidents and our current one, pass legislature they think will better the country...none of which they pass to gain "political points". You guys can't show me proof that all this is for political gain, likewise I can't show you proof that they aren't doing this for political gain...it is just a personal feeling on both sides.

I am not one of these who thinks government is out to destroy the "little guys" (aka the people). Do they screw up? You bet they do, but they aren't purposely doing so to hurt us and save themselves. Why would they be trying to eliminate the people they lead? That makes absolutely no sense.
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#79 MaroonedInHSV

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Posted 23 June 2011 - 10:36 PM

View PostCharles Loring, on 23 June 2011 - 09:27 PM, said:

I am reading Decision Points by GWB. Why? Because I want to see his thought process on some of the decisions he made. From reading his book there is not a doubt in my mind he loved this country and tried to do what he thought was best for us. I think he, like past presidents and our current one, pass legislature they think will better the country...none of which they pass to gain "political points". You guys can't show me proof that all this is for political gain, likewise I can't show you proof that they aren't doing this for political gain...it is just a personal feeling on both sides.

I am not one of these who thinks government is out to destroy the "little guys" (aka the people). Do they screw up? You bet they do, but they aren't purposely doing so to hurt us and save themselves. Why would they be trying to eliminate the people they lead? That makes absolutely no sense.
Since many of our elected officials are career politicians, why would they do anything that would lessen the likelihood of getting reelected?  That makes absolutely no sense.  Most (not all) of the elected officials are not in office to improve our country, they're in office to improve their office.  Look at how few officials deviate from their party lines...  do you honestly believe they always agree?  No, they vote with their parties because they don't want to lose their precious political jobs.  The parties don't give a rip about you, either.  They only care about power.  

I encourage you read about the job of a whip, as it might enlighten you a bit.

#80 Blizzard1

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Posted 23 June 2011 - 10:40 PM

View PostCharles Loring, on 23 June 2011 - 09:27 PM, said:

I am reading Decision Points by GWB. Why? Because I want to see his thought process on some of the decisions he made. From reading his book there is not a doubt in my mind he loved this country and tried to do what he thought was best for us. I think he, like past presidents and our current one, pass legislature they think will better the country...none of which they pass to gain "political points". You guys can't show me proof that all this is for political gain, likewise I can't show you proof that they aren't doing this for political gain...it is just a personal feeling on both sides.

I am not one of these who thinks government is out to destroy the "little guys" (aka the people). Do they screw up? You bet they do, but they aren't purposely doing so to hurt us and save themselves. Why would they be trying to eliminate the people they lead? That makes absolutely no sense.

Charles how in the world can we show you "proof" that would satisfy you? Sometimes when you apply the slightest bit of logic and rationale to a situation you can pretty much figure out the rest. If I were to see a snake slithering by and it had rattles on it, at that point in time could I prove to you that a bite from that particular snake would kill me? Nope! But if I applied just a wee amount logic to the situation, when I saw the rattles that's quite enough proof for me and I would not hang around for the actual evidence of a lethal bite. So although we don't have an internal White House memorandum proving squat, if we apply a touch of logic there is only a minute leap of faith to be made to confirm our suspicions of politics being played by what happened today with the Strategic Oil Reserves being tapped (as an example).

Also, while my posts supposedly are SCREAMING partisanship according to you, I'll stay with the theme and admit that I am quite partisan to non-venemous snakes!  :verified:

Edited by Blizzard1, 23 June 2011 - 10:42 PM.

"Earlier today I ordered America's armed forces to strike military and security targets in Iraq. They are joined by British forces," Clinton said.

"Their mission is to attack Iraq's nuclear, chemical and biological weapons programs and its military capacity to threaten its neighbors," said Clinton. - Bill Clinton/cnn.com-December16,1998

#81 Ray

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Posted 24 June 2011 - 11:33 AM

View PostPastor of Muppets, on 23 June 2011 - 08:30 PM, said:

Were you picking a fight?  There was nothing political in here at least until your reply.

Bingo!!!!  I was wondering when someone was going to bring this up.
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#82 ARCC

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Posted 05 July 2011 - 04:32 PM

Oil Prices back up to near $97 a barrel.
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I want to be that man!"

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What You Need to Know:
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Calvary purchased our Freedom!


And so, I thought, the anvil of God's Word,
For ages, skeptics blows have beat upon;
Yet, though the noise of falling blows was heard,
The anvil is unharmed - the hammers gone.


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#83 vegaseagle

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Posted 05 July 2011 - 09:34 PM

I wish for one week, everyone made an effort to use less gas. I just want to see how much of an effect it would have.

#84 vegaseagle

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Posted 07 July 2011 - 01:12 PM

Gas  wholesale is up .10 right now today

#85 ARCC

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Posted 07 July 2011 - 04:03 PM

Crude closed at $98.67 a barrel. No way the economy will grow if every time a little good news comes out, they drive up oil prices.
"I want to be that man,
who loves the Lord with all his heart just like his word commands,
who takes a stand, and leads his family as he holds the Father's hand,
I want to be that man!"

I Want to be that Man
Brian Free and Assurance

What You Need to Know:
The Cross paved the way for Freedom!
Calvary purchased our Freedom!


And so, I thought, the anvil of God's Word,
For ages, skeptics blows have beat upon;
Yet, though the noise of falling blows was heard,
The anvil is unharmed - the hammers gone.


John Clifford

#86 BlountWolf

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Posted 07 July 2011 - 04:20 PM

Does anyone have a table or graph of global oil production numbers by month since Feb. 2008?
BW

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#87 vegaseagle

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Posted 07 July 2011 - 05:54 PM

View PostARCC, on 07 July 2011 - 04:03 PM, said:

Crude closed at $98.67 a barrel. No way the economy will grow if every time a little good news comes out, they drive up oil prices.
I agree 100%. We need gas under $2.90 IMO

#88 Tyler Penland

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Posted 07 July 2011 - 09:23 PM

Had to dig around to find this but its a link to a thread over on cointalk.com about dollar devaluation and ten cent gas. Good read IMO.

http://www.cointalk.com/t171141/

edited to add: This has changed a bit as silver has fallen but the current melt value of a dime is at $2.63 so its really about 15 cent gas now. However, speculation is that silver goes back up this fall and may hit $50/oz or more. Thats just guessing though.

Edited by Tyler Penland, 07 July 2011 - 09:27 PM.

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#89 xtreme weather

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Posted 07 July 2011 - 10:33 PM

View PostBlountWolf, on 07 July 2011 - 04:20 PM, said:

Does anyone have a table or graph of global oil production numbers by month since Feb. 2008?

think I have the link setup to bring up info...(is a lag in current data as always) can also look at the monthly reports if you like for the most recent data

Oil Supply

Will also say again the "Nations" are tying to manipulate the price will in the end probably cause even higher prices....

Edited by xtreme weather, 07 July 2011 - 10:34 PM.


#90 BlountWolf

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Posted 08 July 2011 - 10:55 AM

View Postxtreme weather, on 07 July 2011 - 10:33 PM, said:

think I have the link setup to bring up info...(is a lag in current data as always) can also look at the monthly reports if you like for the most recent data

Oil Supply

Will also say again the "Nations" are tying to manipulate the price will in the end probably cause even higher prices....

Thanks, appreciate the link. Is it just me, or are we sitting on a global production plateau?
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The trouble with weather forecasting is that it's right too often for us to ignore it and wrong too often for us to rely on it.  ~Patrick Young



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